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Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

No one has said that their religious views can not be criticized. However, free speech does not require Brandeis to honor anyone simply because you (or anyone else) agrees with what she says.

Obviously Brandeis must have had some empathy for her point of view, plus her intellect and courage, or they wouldn't have invited her. When CAIR found out and complained she was quickly, under pressure, dis-invited.

CAIR

Here's the mealymouthed keeper quote from the article that any bonafide leftist will recognize as one of their own.

American Muslims join people of conscience of all faiths in condemning female genital mutilation, forced marriages, ‘honor killings,’ and any other form of domestic violence or gender inequality as violations of Islamic beliefs. If anyone mistreats women, they should not seek refuge in Islam. The real concern in this case is that the producers of the film, who have a track record of promoting anti-Muslim bigotry, are hijacking a legitimate issue to push their hate-filled agenda.
 
Obviously Brandeis must have had some empathy for her point of view, plus her intellect and courage, or they wouldn't have invited her. When CAIR found out and complained she was quickly, under pressure, dis-invited.

Which both CAIR and Brandeis are allowed to do. Ironic to see such a defender of free speech whine when CAIR and Brandeis exercises their free speech rights
 
Which both CAIR and Brandeis are allowed to do. Ironic to see such a defender of free speech whine when CAIR and Brandeis exercises their free speech rights

CAIR was not denied free speech, nor was Brandeis. What gave you the idea that their speech was denied?
 
CAIR was not denied free speech, nor was Brandeis. What gave you the idea that their speech was denied?

Where did I say that anyone's free speech was denied?

You're the one who has posted poutrage over free speech. Remember?
 
Re: Brandeis University withdraws planned honorary degree for Islam critic Ayaan Hirs

Let's look at the recent evidence of what 'liberals' have been saying and doing. The New Inquisition | National Review Online

I don't pay attention to anything in the National Review. Try to find a source that is a little less partisan.

Oh, and btw... there is nothing in that article that demonstrates a violation of the First Amendment. In fact, protesting is PROTECTED in the First Amendment, something that many of the examples were examples of. In other words, YOU are trying to restrict free speech because you don't like the speech that is being presented. You are such a hypocrite.
 
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The Communists were the largest political, and most violent movement ever, over the last Century and lasted, roughly, from 1917 to 1990, with just a few pockets remaining.

Was free speech ever allowed in those countries? Are they allowed in what's left?

Nazism was the most violent political movement ever. Fascism and Nazism were right wing movements. Further, Racism that surrounded the US from the end of the Civil War on to today is a conservative movement. I don't care about Europe. I'm talking about the US. In the US, it's been conservatives leading the way to racism and suppression of opposing speech.
 
Where did I ever post outrage over free speech???

You didn't post any outrage. You posted "poutrage"

Here's where you claimed it was a free speech issue
So you're saying it's a safety issue and not a free speech issue


And here's the poutrage you posted

A good point but in fact it has always been left wingers who try to silence any opposition. This is no different than it was a century ago.

Here's some more poutrage

Would we prefer our daughters to grow up with the strength, courage and intelligence of Hirsi Ali or the cowardice demonstrated by the President and much of the faculty at Brandeis University?

"Liberals" are showing once again their true feelings about genuine women's liberation the same way they claim to care about Blacks in America. When Muslim women genuinely are freed, perhaps in a hundred years or so, it will be 'liberals' who will once again try to take the credit.

Do you want to see Muslim women freed or don't you? Do you want to see Hirsi Ali speak out against the injustices many Muslim women suffer or not? Do you feel that Brandeis inviting her and reneging was wrong? Do you know that by doing that they also removed whatever chance she had to speak? Did you know also that Islamic pressure is also disallowing Universities from showing her film Honor Diaries?

Do you genuinely feel that 'liberals' have been in the forefront in the rights for Muslim women, or do you feel that 'conservatives' have spoken out more in this regard?

Yes, Liberals understand that there are limits on free speech and if there is enough pressure applied then these rights can be rightfully terminated.
 
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A good point but in fact it has always been left wingers who try to silence any opposition. This is no different than it was a century ago.

From where I sit, I'd say that it is the extremes at either end most likely to do so. THe more conformist a person is, the less able they are to handle those who don't conform, and the more extreme the views, the less tolerance.

Left/right -- it makes no difference. THey are more alike than they are different when they become authoritarian.
 
Umm, no one prevented her from speaking.

Brandeis just refused to give her an honorary award.

Yet, you were the one who characterized those who wished that this woman of color be afforded the opportunity to speak against misogyny as "right wingers".

THis mindless,knee jerk reaction that frames any objection to Islamism as some sort of right wing reaction certainly isn't at all uncommon as there are many thousands of examples on this site of dogmatic leftists acting similarly, but if you actually knew what conservative and liberal meant, you would be championing the rights of this woman of color to speak against the misogyny.


....at least if you wished to claim you support liberalism instead of despising it so much you would defend the least liberal creatures on God's green earth.
 
Yet, you were the one who characterized those who wished that this woman of color be afforded the opportunity to speak against misogyny as "right wingers".

THis mindless,knee jerk reaction that frames any objection to Islamism as some sort of right wing reaction certainly isn't at all uncommon as there are many thousands of examples on this site of dogmatic leftists acting similarly, but if you actually knew what conservative and liberal meant, you would be championing the rights of this woman of color to speak against the misogyny.


....at least if you wished to claim you support liberalism instead of despising it so much you would defend the least liberal creatures on God's green earth.

mindless, knee jerk reaction that frames any objection to zionism as some sort of left wing reaction certainly isn't at all uncommon
 
Re: Brandeis University withdraws planned honorary degree for Islam critic Ayaan Hirs

I don't pay attention to anything in the National Review. Try to find a source that is a little less partisan.
You want me to find a source that says there is no liberal bias? Perhaps you might want to check out the NYTimes or Mother Jones. They'll support your non-liberal bias assumptions. No faults in the article though, its just the messenger you don't pay attention to, correct? That should broaden the mind!
Oh, and btw... there is nothing in that article that demonstrates a violation of the First Amendment. In fact, protesting is PROTECTED in the First Amendment, something that many of the examples were examples of. In other words, YOU are trying to restrict free speech because you don't like the speech that is being presented. You are such a hypocrite.
Where did i say the first amendment was being violated? Cowardly Brandeis can do what they did, CAIR, naturally, will do what they do, and those of us who believe in diversity of opinion and greater rights for Muslim women will call down the two for their behavior. Everything is going as it should. I just hope this is not the end of it.
 
Nazism was the most violent political movement ever.
No, it was not. That would be communism.
Fascism and Nazism were right wing movements.
No. As their names suggest, as well as their history, they were left wing movements.
Further, Racism that surrounded the US from the end of the Civil War on to today is a conservative movement.
By that I suppose you mean \Democrat.

I don't care about Europe. I'm talking about the US. In the US, it's been conservatives leading the way to racism and suppression of opposing speech.
It's been the left, and there are many examples.
 
From where I sit, I'd say that it is the extremes at either end most likely to do so. THe more conformist a person is, the less able they are to handle those who don't conform, and the more extreme the views, the less tolerance. Left/right -- it makes no difference. THey are more alike than they are different when they become authoritarian.

Yes, that's true but those who will not defend Hirsi Ali and, recently, Brandon Eich, or shout down those invited to speak at universities and public forums, all tend to share the same politics.

Yes, any group can become authoritarian and that's why we must speak out against them when it happens. By cowardly dis-inviting Hirsi Ali they cast a shadow over her credibility, and she is one of the few women (I know of no men) fighting for the rights of Muslim women. Brandeis, CAIR, and their supporters have won, but what did they and their defenders actually win?
 
Re: Brandeis University withdraws planned honorary degree for Islam critic Ayaan Hirs

I don't pay attention to anything in the National Review. Try to find a source that is a little less partisan.

Oh, and btw... there is nothing in that article that demonstrates a violation of the First Amendment. In fact, protesting is PROTECTED in the First Amendment, something that many of the examples were examples of. In other words, YOU are trying to restrict free speech because you don't like the speech that is being presented. You are such a hypocrite.

CC its true the NR is partisan but the headline I posted is right on the money I don't care who posted it.
 
Yes, that's true but those who will not defend Hirsi Ali and, recently, Brandon Eich, or shout down those invited to speak at universities and public forums, all tend to share the same politics.

Yes, any group can become authoritarian and that's why we must speak out against them when it happens. By cowardly dis-inviting Hirsi Ali they cast a shadow over her credibility, and she is one of the few women (I know of no men) fighting for the rights of Muslim women. Brandeis, CAIR, and their supporters have won, but what did they and their defenders actually win?

In my opinion this lady is a hero in her fight for human rights for women. She is under 24 hour guard for speaking out.

I thought the left was all for female rights. Oh wait that is only when a leftist speaks for them...My Bad.
 
In my opinion this lady is a hero in her fight for human rights for women. She is under 24 hour guard for speaking out.

I thought the left was all for female rights. Oh wait that is only when a leftist speaks for them...My Bad.

They may be concerned about being anti muslim women or islamophobic. Unlike Hirsi Ali they took the safer route.
 
mindless, knee jerk reaction that frames any objection to zionism as some sort of left wing reaction certainly isn't at all uncommon

Been practicing your non sequitors lately there,Bubba,and wanted to give them ago?


What does the establishment of the state of Israel have to do with the subject matter,anyway?
 
In my opinion this lady is a hero in her fight for human rights for women. She is under 24 hour guard for speaking out.

I thought the left was all for female rights. Oh wait that is only when a leftist speaks for them...My Bad.

What these people have done is to send out a message that any University who dares invited Hirsi Ali to speak, or get an honorary degree, will get the same treatment from CAIR and Muslim groups within that University. No University will invite her again because they realize they will just get problems and controversy. Best they invite some mealy mouth prig who will rail against the usual safe targets such as Christians, Jews, dead White men and the 'War Against Women', provided those women aren't Muslim.
 
Been practicing your non sequitors lately there,Bubba,and wanted to give them ago?


What does the establishment of the state of Israel have to do with the subject matter,anyway?

It's the law. If Muslims are mentioned Jews must also be mentioned.
 
Been practicing your non sequitors lately there,Bubba,and wanted to give them ago?
wanted you to see the foolishness of your post
i took your statement and substituted 'zionism' for 'islamism', and 'left' for 'right'
was hopeful you might then notice how inappropriate that blanket statement you posted would be found if you saw it framing an argument against your own religious beliefs
appears my linguistic reach exceeded your grasp; for that i extend my apologies

What does the establishment of the state of Israel have to do with the subject matter,anyway?
the blaspheme against islamism is no more acceptable than that against judaism ... pity i needed to point that out. really a pity
 
Yet, you were the one who characterized those who wished that this woman of color be afforded the opportunity to speak against misogyny as "right wingers".

THis mindless,knee jerk reaction that frames any objection to Islamism as some sort of right wing reaction

I never said that objections to Islamism are right wing. I said the whiners who are complaining about Brandeis and liberals are right wingers.


certainly isn't at all uncommon as there are many thousands of examples on this site of dogmatic leftists acting similarly, but if you actually knew what conservative and liberal meant, you would be championing the rights of this woman of color to speak against the misogyny.

She has the right to speak as much as she likes. Brandeis has done nothing to restrict her ability to speak out
 
She has the right to speak as much as she likes. Brandeis has done nothing to restrict her ability to speak out

Yes, they have. By folding under pressure from CAIR and other Muslim groups other Universities will be fearful of inviting Hirsi Ali to speak. This is the way they silence dissent. Muslims have used these same tactics through the courts, through threats, or by actually murdering people who are critical of Islam.

She already has to be under guard 24 hours a day for speaking out and by denying her a forum, despite their initial invitation, it only reinforces the understanding that it is Muslims who will decide what is going to be said on the subject of misogyny in Islam and not a place of learning which used to stand for the right to expand human knowledge.

If she cannot speak at American Universities because of Muslim threats, where do you think she is safe to speak?
 
CC, sangha, et al.
One doesn't have to resort to a Conservative site like National Review to find critics of Brandeis' action", they are rightfully plentiful.

I imprecisely used the term 'Free Speech' in my first few posts, but later corrected that to [with Left/liberal bias] restricting diversity on campus.
It's a Strawman/avoiding the Real issue raised here, to make this a 'First Amendment' case when it's one of quashing of opinions by mainly/overwhelmingly Liberal academia. (polls galore) Including Brandeis.
Yeah, of course, we all know Brandeis is private; etc, etc.

Diversity and Dishonesty
Ross Douthat
NY Times
April 12, 2014
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/13/opinion/sunday/douthat-diversity-and-dishonesty.html?_r=0

[........]
What both cases illustrate, with their fuzzy rhetoric masking ideological pressure, is a serious moral defect at the heart of elite culture in America.

The defect, crucially, is not this culture's bias against social conservatives, nor its discomfort with stinging attacks on non-Western religions.
Rather, it's the refusal to admit -- to others, and to itself -- that these biases fundamentally trump the commitment to "free expression" or "diversity" affirmed in mission statements and news releases.

This refusal, this self-deception, means that we have far too many powerful communities (corporate, academic, journalistic) that are simultaneously dogmatic and dishonest about it -- that promise diversity but only as the left defines it, that fill their ranks with ideologues and then claim to stand athwart bias and misinformation, that speak the language of pluralism while presiding over communities that resemble the beau ideal of Sandra Y.L. Korn.

Harvard itself is a perfect example of this pattern: As Patrick Deneen of Notre Dame pointed out when the column was making waves, Korn could only come up with one contemporary example of a Harvardian voice that ought to be silenced -- "a single conservative octogenarian," the political philosophy professor Harvey Mansfield. Her call for censorship, Deneen concluded, "is at this point almost wholly unnecessary, since there are nearly no conservatives to be found at Harvard."

I am (or try to be) a partisan of pluralism, which requires respecting Mozilla's right to have a CEO whose politics fit the climate of Silicon Valley, and Brandeis' right to rescind degrees as it sees fit, and Harvard's freedom to be essentially a two-worldview community, with a campus shared uneasily by progressives and corporate neoliberals, and a small corner reserved for token reactionary cranks.

But this respect is difficult to maintain when these institutions will not admit that this is what is going on. Instead, we have the pretense of universality -- the insistence that the post-Eich Mozilla is open to all ideas, the invocations of the "spirit of free expression" from a school that's kicking a controversial speaker off the stage.

And with the pretense, increasingly, comes a dismissive attitude toward those institutions -- mostly religious -- that do acknowledge their own dogmas and commitments and ask for the freedom to embody them and live them out.

It would be a far, far better thing if Harvard and Brandeis and Mozilla would simply say, explicitly, that they are as ideologically progressive as Notre Dame is Catholic or BYU is Mormon or Chick-fil-A is evangelical, and that they intend to run their institution according to those lights.

I can live with the progressivism. It's the lying that gets toxic.
Well said/brilliantly concluded young man.
 
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Yes, they have. By folding under pressure from CAIR and other Muslim groups other Universities will be fearful of inviting Hirsi Ali to speak. This is the way they silence dissent. Muslims have used these same tactics through the courts, through threats, or by actually murdering people who are critical of Islam.

She already has to be under guard 24 hours a day for speaking out and by denying her a forum, despite their initial invitation, it only reinforces the understanding that it is Muslims who will decide what is going to be said on the subject of misogyny in Islam and not a place of learning which used to stand for the right to expand human knowledge.

If she cannot speak at American Universities because of Muslim threats, where do you think she is safe to speak?

More poutrage
 
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