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Thread: Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

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    Re: Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    And is then the actions of THOSE that do not ask her to speak that are the issue, not those who protested of her speaking. Let's put it this way... let's say that a business decides that they will not serve gays and members of the community do not like this policy, speak out about it, and encourage others to not shop there... which they don't, which causes the business to go bankrupt. Should that be allowed to happen? Who's responsibility is it for the business going bankrupt?
    Leftist analogies never really work. You should avoid them altogether.
    Muslims didn't decide what is going to be said. Brandeis decided to not let her speak at this venue. She can still speak on the internet, in books, and anywhere else that will accept her.
    So you remain unaware that the University was pressured from CAIR and other Muslim groups?

    ONE University.
    She will never be invited to another American University. Pressure from Islamic groups have again won the day and they will continue to do so.

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    Re: Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Actually, the reverse is true.
    I believe Sangha is correct. Perhaps you should take it up with him.

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    Re: Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean.McDonnell View Post
    Okay, I acknowledge your argument. I will say she has the right to voice her opinions, I guess I should have rather said that I HOPE the American people don't listen to her. Let her speak all she wants, but I'd hope that we as a people would be educated enough to know what she says is complete bull
    Yes, a woman of color who speaks out against misogyny MUST be telling lies. Is it because she is a woman or because she is a person of color, though?

    I mean, since you tout yourself as a "liberal" and all.

    Meanwhile, your support for female genital mutilatrion is duly noted.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    here is your post where you explained it was the islamists threats which caused her recognition to be rescinded. now share with me what i missed:
    She is under threat from Islamists 24 hours a day. She is potential trouble wherever she speaks and Brandeis is aware of that. Why do you suppose they cancelled the invitation??? Why do you suppose the MSM will not publish te Mohammed cartoons, Why did Comedy Central back down? Are you really not aware of what's going on?? http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/17/us...toon.html?_r=0

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    Re: Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    Quote Originally Posted by Sababa View Post
    She is no different than hundreds of people who have left a faith tradition or cultural and then spread lies and half-truths.
    What lies and half trues are you referring to? Female genital mutilation is a lie? Marrying young girls against their wishes is a lie?

    Brandeis is one of the centers of Jewish learning in this country. Deeply rooted in Jewish education and culture they are also a liberal community that struggles with difficult topics. This woman has said horrible things about Islam in general not just the extremists who use Islam to exploit power. Average Muslims are not in any way like the way she depicts Islam. Again, many of the anti-woman laws and customs pre-date Islam in Arabic culture and of course they are not ubiquitous in the Muslim world.
    Islam deserves to have many horrible things said about because there are many horrible things going on within that religion. Islam is a set of beliefs and, like any beliefs, they may contain crap. Islam has a lot of crap in it and some sort of reformation has to take place but, unfortunately, those who gained power through the present system would never want that. And it's adherents are often to blind and uneducated to be 'reformed'.

    Now those who want her dead for her positions are worse. They not only pervert Islam but step outside of modernity and seek to find a place for their particular form of authoritarian positions.
    Exactly! And these are the people we must reach. Brandeis is not doing anyone any favors by caving to islamic pressures.

    But here is the thing, Brandeis has no obligation to honor this woman or anyone. They are not legally, morally or culturally obligated to give anyone a forum or show support for anyone who the community disagrees with. While Brandeis should have never extended the invite to this honor the reaction of many people in the greater Brandeis community to her was real.
    Quite right. But then theyy should never have offered the invitation in the first place.

    BTW her first amendment rights are still intact and anyone saying differently is ignorant of what the 1st is.
    Yes, her freedom of speech is still intact but the venues for free speech continue to shrink. The new mantra is that everyone has free speech but you must suffer the consequences if you use that right.

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    Re: Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    What lies and half trues are you referring to? Female genital mutilation is a lie? Marrying young girls against their wishes is a lie?
    Well she is an admitted liar about her story. She is hardly a feminist as she allied herself with some pretty anti-woman positions in The Netherlands. As for what you mentioned, while genital mutilation occurs in the Islamic world it is not an Islamic practice and her own marriage story was a lie so hmmmmmm.

    Islam deserves to have many horrible things said about because there are many horrible things going on within that religion. Islam is a set of beliefs and, like any beliefs, they may contain crap. Islam has a lot of crap in it and some sort of reformation has to take place but, unfortunately, those who gained power through the present system would never want that. And it's adherents are often to blind and uneducated to be 'reformed'.
    So we can all be critical of Christianity because of the extremists? Cool. All Christians can now be painted with the Westboro Baptist label.

    Exactly! And these are the people we must reach. Brandeis is not doing anyone any favors by caving to islamic pressures.
    Actually they are living up to their values. There are many people being critical of extremists......we don't need a liar who lumps all Muslims together.

    Quite right. But then theyy should never have offered the invitation in the first place.
    Which is what I said at the beginning. In fact I ask people there why no one read her Wiki page ahead of the invite.

    Yes, her freedom of speech is still intact but the venues for free speech continue to shrink. The new mantra is that everyone has free speech but you must suffer the consequences if you use that right.
    NO that is the mantra from the beginning. Free speech does not and never meant free of consequences. It is whining ignorance to you don't have to deal with fall out of unpopular speech. Or should I sue you for not letting me have a pro-Muslim rally on your front lawn.

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    Re: Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    Quote Originally Posted by Sababa View Post
    Well she is an admitted liar about her story. She is hardly a feminist as she allied herself with some pretty anti-woman positions in The Netherlands. As for what you mentioned, while genital mutilation occurs in the Islamic world it is not an Islamic practice and her own marriage story was a lie so hmmmmmm.
    Accusations are easy but facts are far more relevant.
    So we can all be critical of Christianity because of the extremists? Cool. All Christians can now be painted with the Westboro Baptist label.

    Sure, but be aware that Christians condemned the Westboro Church and even allowed them to speak. But if you want to condemn all Christians for their behavior, go ahead. Why should I expect more?

    Actually they are living up to their values. There are many people being critical of extremists......we don't need a liar who lumps all Muslims together.
    Where did anyone lump all Muslims together? It seems you should be using quotes because these wild statements of yours have lost any credibility.

    Which is what I said at the beginning. In fact I ask people there why no one read her Wiki page ahead of the invite.
    Maybe they read her books and realized what a brave woman she is. Perhaps they were also against child brides and female genital mutilation. Maybe they were against capital punishment for Gays or women who commit adultery. They haven't said much in that area except that there were protests by the usual suspects.

    NO that is the mantra from the beginning. Free speech does not and never meant free of consequences. It is whining ignorance to you don't have to deal with fall out of unpopular speech. Or should I sue you for not letting me have a pro-Muslim rally on your front lawn.
    This Muslim 'fall-out of unpopular speech' includes murder, violence, rioting, and billions of dollars in the destruction of property.

    What would you be saying that is 'pro-Muslim' on my front lawn? Perhaps this might be a good time to point out the positives of Islamic indoctrination.

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    Re: Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    Quote Originally Posted by Sababa View Post
    Well she is an admitted liar about her story. She is hardly a feminist as she allied herself with some pretty anti-woman positions in The Netherlands. As for what you mentioned, while genital mutilation occurs in the Islamic world it is not an Islamic practice and her own marriage story was a lie so hmmmmmm.



    So we can all be critical of Christianity because of the extremists? Cool. All Christians can now be painted with the Westboro Baptist label.



    Actually they are living up to their values. There are many people being critical of extremists......we don't need a liar who lumps all Muslims together.



    Which is what I said at the beginning. In fact I ask people there why no one read her Wiki page ahead of the invite.


    NO that is the mantra from the beginning. Free speech does not and never meant free of consequences. It is whining ignorance to you don't have to deal with fall out of unpopular speech. Or should I sue you for not letting me have a pro-Muslim rally on your front lawn.
    What anti-women positions are you referring to? I'm also going to shamelessly copy what I posted in another thread.

    This topic is extremely frustrating because I find there is so much disingenuousness on the subject because it makes people uncomfortable.

    Let me state for the record that I'm an ardent secularist, my mentor is a Saudi exile, and I'm a strong supporter of democratic movements in the Middle East--from Bahrain to Syria. But for the love of god can we stop pretending that Islam is relatively comparable to Judaism or Christianity in terms of its influence, impact, and levels of adherence.

    As a Jew I'm always amazed at this willful obfuscation. The Torah, Talmud, and Midrash are palpably violent, draconian, and primitive codes of law and morality. However is Judaism violent? No, because Judaism went on a different historical arc that cut the tether to the ancient interpretations and practition of its faith. The diaspora and legal prohibitions forced a reliance on literacy, while perpetual minority status dampened the legislative aggressiveness of rabbinical courts and interpretation. Lack of a physical Israel shifted theological discussions away from law, justice, politics, and war, and toward familial and social considerations. I could go on and on.

    The reason I bring it up is that Islam and Judaism are actually fairly similar religions, moreso than Christianity in that the point of both faiths in their original and orthodox form is to proscribe a code for living and governing every facet of life from cradle to government to the grave. So what is the difference between the two faiths today?

    I think it has everything to do with the obvious fact that Islam has never become separated from the state, it is a holistic religion in a part of the world that never had the kind of confrontation with the enlightenment that Christianity had. And quite frankly Christianity as a fairly malleable religion (it does not prescribe rules for government, life, or law) was probably one of the best faiths in terms of digesting that fight. But Islam did not and has not.

    The orthodoxy of Islam is generally unreformed and this remains a serious problem since it is less amenable to liberalization and reform. Why? Because how do you reform a divinely directed legal code? I think it is huge problem to try and equivocate because it obscures very real and very significant problems and discussions.

    Violence from the Islamic world is not a circumscribed phenomena. Sure you may 'only' have a few hundred thousand militants, terrorists, and paramilitary affiliates across the globe. But you have hundreds of millions of sympathizers (all at varying degrees) and an obvious sociopolitical worldview that is in direct conflict with the forms of liberalism that have taken root in Europe, America, South America, and broad sections of Africa and East Asia.

    Pretending that there isn't an ongoing conflict between Islam and modernity and that this conflict isn't producing violence at unique levels is nothing more than willful denial.

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    Re: Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Accusations are easy but facts are far more relevant.
    Funny you don't know anything about her if you didn't know he admitted she was a liar and resigned from Parliament.


    Sure, but be aware that Christians condemned the Westboro Church and even allowed them to speak. But if you want to condemn all Christians for their behavior, go ahead. Why should I expect more?
    But that is what this woman is doing to Islam.........

    Where did anyone lump all Muslims together? It seems you should be using quotes because these wild statements of yours have lost any credibility.
    When she said [It is not] "a fringe group of radical Muslims who've hijacked Islam and that the majority of Muslims are moderate. [...] Violence is inherent in Islam – it's a destructive, nihilistic cult of death. It legitimates murder." From Reason Magazine Interview:
    Reason: Do you think Islam could bring about similar social and political changes?
    Hirsi Ali: Only if Islam is defeated. Because right now, the political side of Islam, the power-hungry expansionist side of Islam, has become superior to the Sufis and the Ismailis and the peace-seeking Muslims.

    Reason: Don’t you mean defeating radical Islam?
    Hirsi Ali: No. Islam, period. Once it’s defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful. It’s very difficult to even talk about peace now. They’re not interested in peace.

    Reason: We have to crush the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims under our boot? In concrete terms, what does that mean, “defeat Islam”?
    Hirsi Ali: I think that we are at war with Islam. And there’s no middle ground in wars. (emphasis added.)

    - See more at: The question we should be asking about Brandeis, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and Islam | What Would Muhammad Do?

    Maybe they read her books and realized what a brave woman she is. Perhaps they were also against child brides and female genital mutilation. Maybe they were against capital punishment for Gays or women who commit adultery. They haven't said much in that area except that there were protests by the usual suspects.
    maybe there is compelling stories, but her life story was a lie.....so...........

    This Muslim 'fall-out of unpopular speech' includes murder, violence, rioting, and billions of dollars in the destruction of property.
    no there are some Muslims who do that.......but here is the thing....that is true of other groups as well.

    What would you be saying that is 'pro-Muslim' on my front lawn? Perhaps this might be a good time to point out the positives of Islamic indoctrination.
    ??????????? So you would say that I have a right to be there?

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    Re: Under fire, Brandeis cancels plan to honor anti-Islam feminist Ayaan Hirsi Ali

    Quote Originally Posted by Sababa View Post
    Funny you don't know anything about her if you didn't know he admitted she was a liar and resigned from Parliament.
    she lied to get herself out of Somalia and into the West.
    She's not a "liar" and is Not wrong about Islam.
    YOU are wrong about Islam.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sababa
    But that is what this woman is doing to Islam.........
    When she said [It is not] "a fringe group of radical Muslims who've hijacked Islam and that the majority of Muslims are moderate. [...] Violence is inherent in Islam – it's a destructive, nihilistic cult of death. It legitimates murder."
    Which is absolutely TRUE.
    Scores of Links available, including info I already posted in the string.
    Islam applauds murder of it's critics, apostates, and assorted other 'sinners'. (like gays and adulterers)
    It's in the book.
    The problem is the great Majority/Mainstream/Literal Islam, not a few terrorists that it inevitably spawns.

    Quote Originally Posted by sababa
    Reason: Do you think Islam could bring about similar social and political changes?
    Hirsi Ali: Only if Islam is defeated. Because right now, the political side of Islam, the power-hungry expansionist side of Islam, has become superior to the Sufis and the Ismailis and the peace-seeking Muslims.
    Reason: Don’t you mean defeating radical Islam?
    Hirsi Ali: No. Islam, period. Once it’s defeated, it can mutate into something peaceful.
    It’s very difficult to even talk about peace now. They’re not interested in peace.
    Also true. Bravo Ayaan!
    That would be near the same opinion of practicing Muslim reformer, Irshad Manji. (whose life is also in Danger, even in Canada)
    Both (and me) have called for a Muslim Reformation such a happened to Christianity 500 years ago.
    Radical fringes don't need reformations, Mainstream Islam does.
    Of course, Islam had a 'reformation' a century or two ago and that's called Wahhabism.
    Ooops!

    Quote Originally Posted by sababa
    maybe there is compelling stories, but her life story was a lie.....so...........
    No, her life story is by-and-large true.
    The woman who escaped Standard Literal Islam (not even 'Radical' islam) and his a hero for speaking out.
    Your posts, otoh, are lies.

    Quote Originally Posted by sababa

    no there are some Muslims who do that.......but here is the thing....that is true of other groups as well.
    BS.
    There are other religious groups "who do that" but not amounting to 1% of what Islam does.
    People die every day in the Name of Islam from Mauritania to Mindinao.
    So to suggest some sort of equivalence is a Raging deception: your PC purpose here.
    Last edited by mbig; 04-16-14 at 06:20 PM.
    I'm personally sick of not being able to dunk a basketball because of racism.
    anon

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