• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

TheNextEra said:
Yes that horrible government. One wonders why you are even here, I mean there are soo many utopias to choose from, why do you remain here in this hell hole that you despise so much? Maybe you would be happier in Iran.

Comparing a guy who is not paying his fees that every other rancher does, to Rosa Parks just shows how intellectually dishonest your comments really are.
Click to expand...
That person must have forgotten Rosa was arrested for civil disobedience. Bundy has not been arrested, yet.

Rosa Parks Was Arrested for Civil Disobedience, December 1, 1955 - Jump Back in Time | America's Library - Library of Congress

And, I don't know what this has to do with Bundy, or the civil rights movement either.
 
What is it with these communists who think they can live free off of the land owned by taxpayers. When will these guys start paying their way and stop expecting me to foot the bill.
 
rjay said:
What is it with these communists who think they can live free off of the land owned by taxpayers. When will these guys start paying their way and stop expecting me to foot the bill.
Click to expand...

Oh you're going to foot the bill anyway....seen the price of beef lately?
 
Moot said:
Bundy threatening a "range war" and calling in his 'sovereign citizen' buddies and threatening violence is heavy handed, too. The BLM was simply trying to round up cows that were illegally on federal lands, which they had every right to do. They also had a right to protect themselves from Bundy and his extremist pals.
Click to expand...

I think you are manipulating the timeline in order to excuse the government actions....

Bundy didn't make this statement until AFTER the government showed up in para military gear, pointing their weapons, and tazeing his son...

I think you are purposely muddying up the time line to make Bundy appear to be the only one in the wrong....
 
AJiveMan said:
It's relevant because the government doesn't really know what militias are capable of, or what they're planning next. Call it fear of the unknown, and expecting the worst of a circumstance.

I believe the federal agents backed off from the militia in Bunkerville wisely.
Click to expand...

As I told Moot, I think you are conflating the timeline....militias didn't start showing up, to my knowledge until AFTER the armed incursion of an agency that 1. displayed armament far beyond what they typically should be brandishing, and 2. started trampling the constitution by doing such things as trying to "set up a free speech zone"....Are you kidding me?
 
AJiveMan said:
You know, that's uncalled for. If you have an opinion, state it, and let's debate it, cut the crap please.
Click to expand...

Ditto and I have known each other for years...I am confident he took it in the way it was intended....not to worry.

Ditto, among others seem to be displaying a rather blind acceptance of government force, and only taking the word of the authoritarian side of things...

If he has a problem with me, HE can address it, instead of you. ;)
 
longview said:
The irony will likely be that the turtles could only thrive where there was active cattle operations.
The cattle were rendering the vegetation into something the turtles could eat.
Click to expand...

That is a myth from before 1934. Cattle frequently overgrazed the arid ranges and had huge periodic die-offs. (so did West Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, California.) The tortoise SURVIVED as the cattle DIED by eating dung. (Cliven's comment about dung being good for the tortoise because of a high protein content is false in two ways- first dung isn't high in protein and tortoises are harmed by high protein content food).

The tortoise would 'thrive' on rabbit pellets as much as any cattle prairie pie. Cattle are not a requirement for a healthy tortoise habitat, any herbivore droppings will do- rabbit, deer, antelope, even from predators if nothing else.
 
Dittohead not! said:
or at least pay your bills.

Here's another supporter of Bundy. He's even written a folk song for the folk hero.

[video]http://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2014/04/colbert-hannity-and-bundy-go-together[/video]
Click to expand...

I don't know he is a "friend" of Bundy, or just some guy writing a song....Do you? I have agreed numerous times that Bundy's course of actions in this should have been to pay the fees, and fight it in the courts...He didn't, and a Judge ordered the cattle confiscated...The problem is, that you have a rancher who represented himself in these loosing court battles, and we've all seen now the level of ability to stage the battle in that regard...Bundy needs competent council, and continue in the courts...

In the mean time there may or may not be recourse for him to stop the ceasing of his herd...But, all of that IN NO WAY justifies the governments over zealous show of force....

When Utah ranchers told Nevada that they may have as many as 200 ranchers and supporters coming down to protest along side Bundy, they were told by the Clark County official, "I hope they have their funeral arrangements in order".... What the hell is that? But, so far Ditto, you seem to support that as long as it is from the government.
 
notquiteright said:
That is a myth from before 1934. Cattle frequently overgrazed the arid ranges and had huge periodic die-offs. (so did West Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, California.) The tortoise SURVIVED as the cattle DIED by eating dung. (Cliven's comment about dung being good for the tortoise because of a high protein content is false in two ways- first dung isn't high in protein and tortoises are harmed by high protein content food).

The tortoise would 'thrive' on rabbit pellets as much as any cattle prairie pie. Cattle are not a requirement for a healthy tortoise habitat, any herbivore droppings will do- rabbit, deer, antelope, even from predators if nothing else.
Click to expand...

pfft! The "tortoise argument" has already been debunked as little more than a rouse to allow authoritarian action by this administration.

If the cattle are detrimental to the tortoise, then you shouldn't be able to pay a fee to continue....All this is, (analogy here) is protection money, paid to the government mob.
 
j-mac said:
pfft! The "tortoise argument" has already been debunked as little more than a rouse to allow authoritarian action by this administration.

If the cattle are detrimental to the tortoise, then you shouldn't be able to pay a fee to continue....All this is, (analogy here) is protection money, paid to the government mob.
Click to expand...

That is not the issue. You shouldn't be able to skip paying leasing fees (on public or private land) and expect to continue to use it. Do you consider user fees to access public parks to be protection money paid to the gov't mob? What about paying fees to enter (or park at) the zoo? What this moron wants is to unilaterally decide who is the legitimate owner of the land and, if that entity is not to his liking, then he (alone?) may use it for free. The fact that I could buy gasoline for $.20/gallon, many years ago, does not mean that I am entitled to pay that price today.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That is not the issue. You shouldn't be able to skip paying leasing fees (on public or private land) and expect to continue to use it. Do you consider user fees to access public parks to be protection money paid to the gov't mob? What about paying fees to enter (or park at) the zoo? What this moron wants is to unilaterally decide who is the legitimate owner of the land and, if that entity is not to his liking, then he (alone?) may use it for free. The fact that I could buy gasoline for $.20/gallon, many years ago, does not mean that I am entitled to pay that price today.
Click to expand...

No, of course not...And have said that Bundy should have paid his fees...But, If I am in that park, and have paid the fee to enter, and a park ranger comes up to me and says, "yeah, that fee you paid at the gate, is now changed now that you're in, and I want another $20 from you to stay".... Then yes, it is protection money, or similar type of crap.
 
j-mac said:
No, of course not...And have said that Bundy should have paid his fees...But, If I am in that park, and have paid the fee to enter, and a park ranger comes up to me and says, "yeah, that fee you paid at the gate, is now changed now that you're in, and I want another $20 from you to stay".... Then yes, it is protection money, or similar type of crap.
Click to expand...

The bolded distinction is very important. Bundy refuses to pay the fees, based on lunacy, yet demands continued use of the land. Do you have some evidence that Bundy had paid someone else for current use of that land?
 
j-mac said:
As I told Moot, I think you are conflating the timeline....militias didn't start showing up, to my knowledge until AFTER the armed incursion of an agency that 1. displayed armament far beyond what they typically should be brandishing, and 2. started trampling the constitution by doing such things as trying to "set up a free speech zone"....Are you kidding me?
Click to expand...

So the militia rented supersonic aircraft and flew to Bunkerville from Idaho, Colorado and other states, that's amazing. I didn't know militias had access to such modern vehicles.
 
j-mac said:
Ditto and I have known each other for years...I am confident he took it in the way it was intended....not to worry.

Ditto, among others seem to be displaying a rather blind acceptance of government force, and only taking the word of the authoritarian side of things...

If he has a problem with me, HE can address it, instead of you. ;)
Click to expand...

I have a problem with people being rude, and I will address it, even if it displeases you mildly.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The bolded distinction is very important. Bundy refuses to pay the fees, based on lunacy, yet demands continued use of the land. Do you have some evidence that Bundy had paid someone else for current use of that land?
Click to expand...

The BLM doesnt have the authority, nor a writ to collect that debt at gun point.
 
apdst said:
The BLM doesnt have the authority, nor a writ to collect that debt at gun point.
Click to expand...

What? Are you now quibbling over which federal law enforcement agency has authority to enforce that federal law?
 
j-mac said:
I don't know he is a "friend" of Bundy, or just some guy writing a song....Do you? I have agreed numerous times that Bundy's course of actions in this should have been to pay the fees, and fight it in the courts...He didn't, and a Judge ordered the cattle confiscated...The problem is, that you have a rancher who represented himself in these loosing court battles, and we've all seen now the level of ability to stage the battle in that regard...Bundy needs competent council, and continue in the courts...

In the mean time there may or may not be recourse for him to stop the ceasing of his herd...But, all of that IN NO WAY justifies the governments over zealous show of force....

When Utah ranchers told Nevada that they may have as many as 200 ranchers and supporters coming down to protest along side Bundy, they were told by the Clark County official, "I hope they have their funeral arrangements in order".... What the hell is that? But, so far Ditto, you seem to support that as long as it is from the government.
Click to expand...

If you were to have the job of evicting a deadbeat, and were told that 200 armed supporters were coming to help him, and that you'd better have your funeral arrangements made, would you:

a. simply show up and ask him to pretty please leave, or
b. show up with enough force to turn the possible slaughter into a stand off?

Personally, I'd pick b.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
What? Are you now quibbling over which federal law enforcement agency has authority to enforce that federal law?
Click to expand...

The BLM isn't a law enforcement agency and Bundy didn't violate the criminal code.
 
Moot said:
Reminds me of Shay's Rebellion...which was the inspiration for creating a strong federal government that could enforce the laws. History shows that the founding fathers would not have put up with Mr. Bundy and would have cut him down without hesitation.
Click to expand...

The Founding Fathers would not have charged him a grazing fee.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Cliven Bundy on the the "Negro":



Here's the story from the Christian Science Monitor:

There you go. There's your folk hero standing up to the big bad federal government, you know, the freedom fighter who has been compared to the revolutionaries of '76.

What a guy. What a role model for the RWENJ!
Click to expand...

If you think this way of Bundy, I wonder what you think of Washington, Jefferson and some other Founding Fathers. Bundy talked about slavery, these others actually owned slaves.
 
Texmex said:
If you think this way of Bundy, I wonder what you think of Washington, Jefferson and some other Founding Fathers. Bundy talked about slavery, these others actually owned slaves.
Click to expand...

Times have changed a bit since the 18th. century, at least in most places.

Perhaps not in Eastern Nevada.
 
Texmex said:
The Founding Fathers would not have charged him a grazing fee.
Click to expand...

Right, they would have just confiscated his entire ranch.
 
Texmex said:
If you think this way of Bundy, I wonder what you think of Washington, Jefferson and some other Founding Fathers. Bundy talked about slavery, these others actually owned slaves.
Click to expand...

Let us know when Bundy starts his own country then you can compare him to the founders. As it stands, he's just a free loader.
 
apdst said:
The BLM isn't a law enforcement agency and Bundy didn't violate the criminal code.
Click to expand...


The BLM has the authority to enforce federal law on federal land which includes nabbing poachers, marijuana growers and even busting vacationers smoking a joint around the campfire out in the middle of nowhere.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom