• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

AJiveMan said:
IMO, Bundy is on dangerous ground asking for militias to help him fight the government, he should have hired a prominent attorney or several to present his case.
Click to expand...

the loony militias and Bundy are a perfect fit. Both are racist, and both deny the legitimacy of the Federal Government. A marriage made in Hell.
 
justabubba said:
my understanding is he had to represent himself in the prior litigation because no lawyer was willing to be embarrassed as the attorney of record in a certain losing situation. after all, he had no sound argument and had to make one up. one almost as 'good' as asking if negroes would not be better off as slaves
Click to expand...

One should never represent oneself in a court of law, unless it's for minor traffic violations. Prosecutors usually have field days with defendants representing themselves.
 
beefheart said:
Well, considering his demonstrated lack of prowess in holding a press conference, is it any wonder?
Click to expand...

Yepper, he shoulda' had an attorney as a spokesperson for him. Giving an idiot an open microphone is extremely stupid. We must wonder what his level of education was? Third grade?
 
j-mac said:
Well, you're right that reg's should have been complied with in the 90s, but to wait 20 years then respond with such a display of force is stupid unless you as the government are trying to show the public that it is now under authoritarian rule. There were less heavy handed ways to proceed and save face. But progressives hate the military approach unless they can use it against their political opposition.
Click to expand...
Bundy threatening a "range war" and calling in his 'sovereign citizen' buddies and threatening violence is heavy handed, too. The BLM was simply trying to round up cows that were illegally on federal lands, which they had every right to do. They also had a right to protect themselves from Bundy and his extremist pals.
 
Moot said:
Bundy threatening a "range war" and calling in his 'sovereign citizen' buddies and threatening violence is heavy handed, too. The BLM was simply trying to round up cows that were illegally on federal lands, which they had every right to do. They also had a right to protect themselves from Bundy and his extremist pals.
Click to expand...

And Bundy with his supporters thought they won, isn't that a hoot?
 
AJiveMan said:
And Bundy with his supporters thought they won, isn't that a hoot?
Click to expand...

Well, they succeeded in threatening the federal government without repercussions and making it look weak. That could set a dangerous precedent for other militias all over the country.

Timothy McViegh and Terry Nichols called themselves "sovereign citizens", too. I'm afraid it might take another Oklahoma bombing to turn the public against the sovereign citizen militias....again. Law enforcement should be very concerned because they are the main targets of this group.
 
AJiveMan said:
And Bundy with his supporters thought they won, isn't that a hoot?
Click to expand...

They won that day, but they know that the Reid ' s stand to lose too much money to give up that easy.
 
Moot said:
Well, they succeeded in threatening the federal government without repercussions and making it look weak. That could set a dangerous precedent for other militias all over the country.

Timothy McViegh and Terry Nichols called themselves "sovereign citizens", too. I'm afraid it might take another Oklahoma bombing to turn the public against the sovereign citizen militias....again. Law enforcement should be very concerned because they are the main targets of this group.
Click to expand...

Is "sovereign citizen" a synonym for "nutcase?"
 
Moot said:
Well, they succeeded in threatening the federal government without repercussions and making it look weak. That could set a dangerous precedent for other militias all over the country.

Timothy McViegh and Terry Nichols called themselves "sovereign citizens", too. I'm afraid it might take another Oklahoma bombing to turn the public against the sovereign citizen militias....again. Law enforcement should be very concerned because they are the main targets of this group.
Click to expand...

They are very dangerous people, not only to law enforcement and the BLM and Forest Service, but to ordinary citizens too.

In an article linked in this thread, one Forest Service/BLM employee stated that he/she advised their people in the field to be cautious, that after a bomb went off in a federal office.

In fact, I did some digging on the internet and found that agencies are now advised how to operate more cautiously due to the threat from those militia groups.

In fact, a new pamphlet was issued out (1999) to workers about being more aware of the dangers in their jobs.

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf00672820/pdf00672820dpi72.pdf

This came on the heels of bombings and threats to Forest Service employees. It's a little known fact that pipe bombs, and pipe bomb makings have been found in National Forests.

I, myself call these people who wish to do harm to others militia groups because normal people don't do these kinds of things. The government doesn't know who was behind the attacks yet.
 
Last edited:
Bottom line is that this dude's a freeloader. He wears a Cowboy had and rides horses though, so it's OK.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Is "sovereign citizen" a synonym for "nutcase?"
Click to expand...

Yes, and civil disobedience is domestic terrorism according to the man who intends to profit from getting bundy off his ranch.

Also, you're a terrorist if you are of the belief that the country is supposed to be run by and for the people. (Re: if you feel that you are sovereign).

he's a freeloader for producing beef, so we gotta ruin his life and make him a productive welfare recipient.
 
BmanMcfly said:
Yes, and civil disobedience is domestic terrorism according to the man who intends to profit from getting bundy off his ranch.

Also, you're a terrorist if you are of the belief that the country is supposed to be run by and for the people. (Re: if you feel that you are sovereign).

he's a freeloader for producing beef, so we gotta ruin his life and make him a productive welfare recipient.
Click to expand...

He's already a welfare recipient, and has been for about 20 years now.
 
AJiveMan said:
They are very dangerous people, not only to law enforcement and the BLM and Forest Service, but to ordinary citizens too.

In an article linked in this thread, one Forest Service/BLM employee stated that he/she advised their people in the field to be cautious, that after a bomb went off in a federal office.

In fact, I did some digging on the internet and found that agencies are now advised how to operate more cautiously due to the threat from those militia groups.

In fact, a new pamphlet was issued out (1999) to workers about being more aware of the dangers in their jobs.

http://www.fs.fed.us/t-d/pubs/pdfpubs/pdf00672820/pdf00672820dpi72.pdf

This came on the heels of bombings and threats to Forest Service employees. It's a little known fact that pipe bombs, and pipe bomb makings have been found in National Forests.

I, myself call these people who wish to do harm to others militia groups because normal people don't do these kinds of things. The government doesn't know who was behind the attacks yet.
Click to expand...

Have you heard of the 'Sagebrush Rebellion"? Its been an ongoing battle in the west for well over 40 years now.....

Sagebrush Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Soon they won't be fighting over land rights....they'll be fighting over water rights.
 
BmanMcfly said:
Yes, and civil disobedience is domestic terrorism according to the man who intends to profit from getting bundy off his ranch.

Also, you're a terrorist if you are of the belief that the country is supposed to be run by and for the people. (Re: if you feel that you are sovereign).

he's a freeloader for producing beef, so we gotta ruin his life and make him a productive welfare recipient.
Click to expand...

The ignorance you demonstrate is astounding if you believe that. The guy BROKE THE ****ING LAW. Do you NOT understand that? I don't excuse the feds excessive force, but I don't excuse Bundy's actions or call him a hero for it either.

Tell you what, you go to another country, break the law, and then find out what happens. Than come back and whine how bad the U.S. is ok? God some righties are idiots.
 
Moot said:
Have you heard of the 'Sagebrush Rebellion"? Its been an ongoing battle in the west for well over 40 years now.....

Sagebrush Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Soon they won't be fighting over land rights....they'll be fighting over water rights.
Click to expand...

I had the displeasure of hearing about water rights and the like when in New Mexico for five years.

Ranchers and farmers were going at it with respect to water flowing along the Rio Grande.

I do believe that the state of New Mexico controls the water flowing south on the Rio Grande from Elephant Butte Dam, in Elephant Butte, where we lived.

ebutte dam~2.jpg

747.jpg

049.jpg
 
Last edited:
AJiveMan said:
I had the displeasure of hearing about water rights and the like when in New Mexico for five years.

Ranchers and farmers were going at it with respect to water flowing along the Rio Grande.

I do believe that the state of New Mexico controls the water flowing south on the Rio Grande from Elephant Butte Dam, in Elephant Butte, where we lived.

View attachment 67165416

View attachment 67165417
Click to expand...


Water wars have been a fact of life in the west for many years, and show no signs of ending. Still, so far no rancher has refused to pay for water deliveries, then assembled a militia to protect his supposed right to free water. At least, I don't remember such a thing actually having happened.
 
AJiveMan said:
When did I say he or his followers were? How about NO.

I think it's relevant, after all, the militias supporting Bundy were armed. Makes the US government wonder what else they're capable of. It makes me suspicious of his followers.
Click to expand...

How is it relevant then?
 
Dittohead not! said:
Water wars have been a fact of life in the west for many years, and show no signs of ending. Still, so far no rancher has refused to pay for water deliveries, then assembled a militia to protect his supposed right to free water. At least, I don't remember such a thing actually having happened.
Click to expand...

Most farmers in the Rio Grande valley work with the state and federal agencies.

With that being said, whenever the Rio Grande river levels go down, farmers & ranchers south of the dam I mentioned before are at the fate of mother nature. Their locks for water are set to a certain height, as agreed to by all concerned parties. Most ranchers and farmers know the risks of being at risk of not having enough water, but none ever go the the Dam with weapons and demand more water.

As I understand it, the ranchers around Bundy have already voiced their displeasure with the man, which sent a small signal, but their message got out there, none the less.
 
j-mac said:
How is it relevant then?
Click to expand...

It's relevant because the government doesn't really know what militias are capable of, or what they're planning next. Call it fear of the unknown, and expecting the worst of a circumstance.

I believe the federal agents backed off from the militia in Bunkerville wisely.
 
j-mac said:
Yep...obey ditto obey.
Click to expand...

or at least pay your bills.

Here's another supporter of Bundy. He's even written a folk song for the folk hero.

[video]http://crooksandliars.com/cltv/2014/04/colbert-hannity-and-bundy-go-together[/video]
 
TheNextEra said:
The ignorance you demonstrate is astounding if you believe that. The guy BROKE THE ****ING LAW. Do you NOT understand that? I don't excuse the feds excessive force, but I don't excuse Bundy's actions or call him a hero for it either.

Tell you what, you go to another country, break the law, and then find out what happens. Than come back and whine how bad the U.S. is ok? God some righties are idiots.
Click to expand...

No, not a hero... just a guy fighting an injustice made to shut him down to free up his lands for further projects that will add to corrupt politicians wealth.

It was against the law for Rosa parks to sit at the front of the bus... doesn't make it right. ..

But no, in the end this guy will be shut down, along with all others who will get shut down if they are not part of the select few that get exemptions from all these in just laws.

Don't worry the government will eventually get the guns to, piece by piece until nobody will be able to stand against injustice...

Then once the government gets the monopoly on power, then we'll be able to live like they do in north Korea.
 
BmanMcfly said:
No, not a hero... just a guy fighting an injustice made to shut him down to free up his lands for further projects that will add to corrupt politicians wealth.

It was against the law for Rosa parks to sit at the front of the bus... doesn't make it right. ..

But no, in the end this guy will be shut down, along with all others who will get shut down if they are not part of the select few that get exemptions from all these in just laws.

Don't worry the government will eventually get the guns to, piece by piece until nobody will be able to stand against injustice...

Then once the government gets the monopoly on power, then we'll be able to live like they do in north Korea.
Click to expand...

Yes that horrible government. One wonders why you are even here, I mean there are soo many utopias to choose from, why do you remain here in this hell hole that you despise so much? Maybe you would be happier in Iran.

Comparing a guy who is not paying his fees that every other rancher does, to Rosa Parks just shows how intellectually dishonest your comments really are.
 
BmanMcfly said:
No, not a hero... just a guy fighting an injustice made to shut him down to free up his lands for further projects that will add to corrupt politicians wealth.

It was against the law for Rosa parks to sit at the front of the bus... doesn't make it right. ..

But no, in the end this guy will be shut down, along with all others who will get shut down if they are not part of the select few that get exemptions from all these in just laws.

Don't worry the government will eventually get the guns to, piece by piece until nobody will be able to stand against injustice...

Then once the government gets the monopoly on power, then we'll be able to live like they do in north Korea.
Click to expand...

Join him then. Refuse to pay your electric bill, your water bill, your rent/mortgage, and your taxes. You'll be a patriot just like Cliven Bundy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom