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Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

AJiveMan said:
Oh, please tell us of how the government would collect over one million dollars.

String people up? where did that come from?
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The Marshals (to whom you've referred) used to string 'em up. Seriously, you don't think there are plenty of people in this country that are worth a million dollars or more? You haven't ever been involved with federal government collection methods, I take it. Doesn't it strike you as strange that if Bundy doesn't have a net worth of that amount, the government would be attempting to collect it while at the same time ignoring Berkshire Hathaway, who owed over $2 billion at last look and is eminently able to pay it? See? They'll settle that dispute in court because it's Warren Buffet. Bundy, nah. Bring on the guns, guns, guns. And that got them what?
 
humbolt said:
Yeah. Let's string the bastard up. The government could easily collect their debt without all the firepower, but what the hell. It's more fun this way.
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Uh, no, All them hilbillies out there that want to use women as bullet shields as they shoot at the feds makes it such that the BLM needs to be armed. Get it?
 
Ockham said:
Sorry to hear your anti-truth. I have to probe and find out how far of a murderous twat some posters, especially when no trial, judge or jury is required.
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The only people that want to murder people are the tea party/freemen/soverign wingnuts that want a blood orgy. They get hard ons thinking about it...
 
beefheart said:
The only people that want to murder people are the tea party/freemen/soverign wingnuts that want a blood orgy. They get hard ons thinking about it...
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You're turn to show your work... show me where the tea party is threatening murder and a blood orgy as it applies to this Nevada incident.
 
Ockham said:
So there's no actual facts that say the Bundy's called in the militia. Got it - that's what I thought.
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What were you saying again?

Nevada Uprising: Cliven Bundy & Right-Wing Militias declare War on the US
Nevada criminal Cliven Bundy, became a conservative cause célèbre as Bundy set himself up as Simon de Montfort, battling the injustice and tyranny of the Federal Government.
"My forefathers have been up and down the Virgin Valley ever since 1877. All these rights I claim have been created through pre-emptive rights and beneficial use of the forage and the water. I have been here longer." Cliven Bundy
Bundy owes over $1,000,000 in fees for grazing on Federal Lands, when in 1993 he decided to stop paying fees for using public lands. Since then he has lost numerous court cases.

But, the Right-Wing Wurlitzer of Outrage stoked the flames and invited Militias to stand with Bundy against the Federal Government.
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Disaffected and it Feels So Good: Nevada Uprising: Cliven Bundy & Right-Wing Militias declare War on the US
 
beefheart said:
Uh, no, All them hilbillies out there that want to use women as bullet shields as they shoot at the feds makes it such that the BLM needs to be armed. Get it?
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Well dang. That just makes it worse. Part of the war on wimmens, too then...... Actually it was the Feds who went in heavy to start with, but I can see where the possibility of whacking some hillbillies would excite some. If they work at it, maybe the feds can wipe out Bundy's whole family too.
 
AJiveMan said:
What were you saying again?



Disaffected and it Feels So Good: Nevada Uprising: Cliven Bundy & Right-Wing Militias declare War on the US
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Sorry but that's a blog so not a credible source but even in the blog it stated that Bundy didn't call the militia:

But, the Right-Wing Wurlitzer of Outrage stoked the flames and invited Militias to stand with Bundy against the Federal Government.
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So it's just like I thought and yes, there I have it, just as I suspected.
 
Ockham said:
Gotta say, one guy saying they were going to use women as human shields... despicable but given the amount of left wing noise in support of brown shirt government types, I'd rather have more than one person's say so.
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I am not left wing.

I can also see that Bundy and the Occupiers have alot in common in that they dont want to pay for things they purchased (their debts are uhmm... "unconstitutional"). What they dont have in common is that the Occupiers, so far, have not called up armed supporters.

This country can afford neither Bundy nor the Occupiers.
 
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humbolt said:
The Marshals (to whom you've referred) used to string 'em up. Seriously, you don't think there are plenty of people in this country that are worth a million dollars or more? You haven't ever been involved with federal government collection methods, I take it. Doesn't it strike you as strange that if Bundy doesn't have a net worth of that amount, the government would be attempting to collect it while at the same time ignoring Berkshire Hathaway, who owed over $2 billion at last look and is eminently able to pay it? See? They'll settle that dispute in court because it's Warren Buffet. Bundy, nah. Bring on the guns, guns, guns. And that got them what?
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1,000 head of cattle, and a ranch with out buildings, yeah, he's got the money.

If he has not, he can hire an attorney to plea his case, and possibly negotiate what he owes to a lower amount.


But he just needed to invite militias to fight the government because he's anti government, and a deadbeat.
 
AJiveMan said:
I'm not sympathetic to anyone who owes money, if you owe money, pay it.

I don't care if Clyde has been there since 1700. He leases the land he uses, leases usually involve monetary compensation. If you can't afford or are not willing to pay the lease fees, then get the hell off the land.

This is also true for oil companies who lease government land for extracting oil from government owned lands, and it's true for logging companies who cut timber on National Forest Lands.

What part of leasing don't some of the people here understand?
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First someone comes in and starts charging you rent for using your back yard that you've been using for 100+ years then they start whittling away at how you can use your back yard so you tell them to get bent.

Sure, the guy went to court and lost but in this country that doesn't mean that legal alternatives have been exhausted. All it means is that he has to come up with another reason to contest the matter. It damned sure doesn't mean sending an armed force to seize the property.
 
Cryptic said:
I am not left wing. I can also see that Bundy and the Occupiers have alot in common in that they dont want to pay for things they purchased (their debts are uhmm... "unconstitutional"). What they dont have in common is that the Occupiers, so far, have not called up armed supporters.
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I have no issue with whatever Bundy owes, my issue has been and will be the heavy handed threat of armed federal officers. The only people who were shot was by the police using stun guns and attack dogs by the police. As already cited, Bundy didn't call in armed supported (ie., militia), though I'm sure many would want to push that narrative, which is so far, untrue.
 
Ockham said:
Sorry but that's a blog so not a credible source but even in the blog it stated that Bundy didn't call the militia:



So it's just like I thought and yes, there I have it, just as I suspected.
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Somehow I knew you were going to attempt to discredit what I posted, why am I not a bit surprised about that?

Oh, I know, divine intervention set into activists minds that Clyde was having trouble with the US Gubbermint. That explains it.
 
Lutherf said:
First someone comes in and starts charging you rent for using your back yard that you've been using for 100+ years then they start whittling away at how you can use your back yard so you tell them to get bent.

Sure, the guy went to court and lost but in this country that doesn't mean that legal alternatives have been exhausted. All it means is that he has to come up with another reason to contest the matter. It damned sure doesn't mean sending an armed force to seize the property.
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He paid lease fees until 1993, which is when he stopped. His faux outrage should have begun then. But, there weren't any tea militias around back then, were there?

When the feds show up to seize property, they are usually armed.
 
Ockham said:
Did they call the militia in? Can you link that part of the story?
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Rancher's son says force was necessary to stop cattle seizure | Reuters

"We were dedicated to opening those gates and peacefully walking through to retrieve those cattle," Ammon Bundy said in an interview. "The presence of weapons was needed in order to intimidate them." Ammon Bundy

[About 100 Bundy supporters, many wearing camouflage and carrying firearms, gathered on Sunday with the family for an informal church service at a makeshift protest command center.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfY3kIqSNvI
 
AJiveMan said:
1,000 head of cattle, and a ranch with out buildings, yeah, he's got the money.

If he has not, he can hire an attorney to plea his case, and possibly negotiate what he owes to a lower amount.


But he just needed to invite militias to fight the government because he's anti government, and a deadbeat.
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I don't know Bundy, never heard of him before last week, and only have the reports of others regarding him, so I can't say what he is with any certainty. He could be a deadbeat, but certainly no more of one than the many others who owe the government money. The government doesn't need to physically confront the guy. They'll get their money eventually.
 
Ockham said:
As already cited, Bundy didn't call in armed supported (ie., militia), though I'm sure many would want to push that narrative, which is so far, untrue.
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Ok, maybe the Occupiers will just "not object" to the presence of armed supporters in ther vicinity next time the "evil" feds try to collect their "unconstitutional" debts.

"We were dedicated to opening those gates and peacefully walking through to retrieve those cattle," Ammon Bundy said in an interview. "The presence of weapons was needed in order to intimidate them." Ammon Bundy


At the end of the day, Bundy had years to pay for his purchase, had no intention of paying, and threatened to do "what ever it takes to protect his cattle". Bundy sought out, and not surprisingly, found a confrontation.

Try self declaring yourself exempt from debt collection (are not all debts "unconstitutional"? Well, mine are LOL), dont pay on something for years, threaten to "protect your assets" if anybody tries to collect on the debt and see how nice the local police treat you.

Lutherf said:
First someone comes in and starts charging you rent for using your back yard that you've been using for 100+ years then they start whittling away at how you can use your back yard so you tell them to get bent.
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Invalid comparison. It is not his back yard. He does not own that property. Bundy has no mystical ownership of the property based on ancestory. His privelage to use the area, however, should be respected- so long as he pays the rent.

My ancestors are third generation residents near a state forest in Wisconsin. They have hunted, fished and trapped there for generations.
That does not make the State Forest "my back yard". If I choose to obtain permission to take timber from that area, I need to pay the owner - period.

Am I the only conservative here who understands these concepts?
 
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humbolt said:
Well dang. That just makes it worse. Part of the war on wimmens, too then...... Actually it was the Feds who went in heavy to start with, but I can see where the possibility of whacking some hillbillies would excite some. If they work at it, maybe the feds can wipe out Bundy's whole family too.
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To start with???? This guy has owed money for years! He lost court cases....BLM should have busted his ass 10 years ago!
 
AJiveMan said:
Somehow I knew you were going to attempt to discredit what I posted, why am I not a bit surprised about that?

Oh, I know, divine intervention set into activists minds that Clyde was having trouble with the US Gubbermint. That explains it.
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I don't have to discredit it - it's just that Bundy didn't call in the militia. There are no facts to the contrary.
 
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