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Thread: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

  1. #961
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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    The issue is that this guy is a welfare queen deadbeat.
    So this means that he's now the posterboy loved by all liberals?

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    So this means that he's now the posterboy loved by all liberals?
    You love him, you must be liberal.
    "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Identical concept in play. The objection was that he was in the wrong because he was breaking the law. Rosa Parks broke the law too. Now the focus shifts onto whether the law was just. Well, is it?

    If this turtle is so important that the Feds need to be stripping all of the ranchers in the area of their grazing land, and Cliven Bundy is now the very last rancher still operating in that area, then why are the Feds euthanizing the turtles in their preservation center?

    The fact that the turtles are being euthanized suggests to me that the turtles are not that important. If the turtles are not that important then the revokation of grazing access to all of the ranchers in that area wasn't necessary. This puts us well into legitimate debate about whether that law is justified.

    There is also a secondary issue in play. Is the government the master of the people or their servant? The Feds are closing the turtle preservation center due to a lack of funds but the Feds had plenty of money to devote to deploying all the equipment and personnel to enforce their will on the Bundy ranch. If the turtle was so important then that money could have instead been allocated towards keeping the center open and the turtles alive. Instead it seems that it was very important to use Federal assets and incur expenses to show the people who is boss, no matter that this is a protest of conscience.
    Again you only are sharing a opinion.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Martha Stewart was investigated for suspicion of breaking investment laws and the evidence gathered showed that she hadn't broken any laws and so she was sent to prison for what her investigators alleged was a falsehood in her conversations with them.

    Sure looks like tyranny to me.
    You are just full of opinions aren't you?

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    What gets me about people openly supporting Cliven Bundy is what they are supporting: "I abide by all of Nevada state laws. But I don’t recognize the United States government as even existing," Cliven Bundy this guy is a ****ing anti American scum bottom eating State Rights extremist. **** him and the horse that he rode in on. he had his fair day in court and lost over and over. Now he thinks that he is going to use force to rerach his ****ing anti American bull**** crusade. He ****ed big though since the courts will take his family ranch to pay back grazing fees that he purposely stopped paying the stupid ass. ANd when that happens all the militia extremists will show up again thinking that last time they gained a victory and will have giant balls. ANd when they start shooting other Americans the whole lot of them will be ****ed. I say bring it on use them guns dip****s society will be better off without your dumb **** asses.

    Blueprint For Revolution Realized In Nevada At Bundy Ranch Alex Jones' Infowars: There's a war on for your mind!

    Gun Confiscation -- Operation American Spring

    "Concept of Operations:
    Phase 1 – Field millions, as many as ten million, patriots who will assemble in a peaceful, non-violent, physically unarmed (Spiritually/Constitutionally armed), display of unswerving loyalty to the US Constitution and against the incumbent government leadership, in Washington, D.C., with the mission to bring down the existing leadership. Go full-bore, no looking back, steadfast in the mission.

    THE BLUEPRINT from LSTV on Vimeo.

    Phase 2 - One million or more of the assembled 10 million must be prepared to stay in D.C. as long as it takes to see Obama, Biden, Reid, McConnell, Boehner, Pelosi, and Attorney General Holder removed from office.
    Consistent with the US Constitution, as required, the U.S. Congress will take appropriate action, execute appropriate legislation, deal with vacancies, or U.S. States will appoint replacements for positions vacated consistent with established constitutional requirements.

    Phase 3 – Those with the principles of a West, Cruz, Dr. Ben Carson, Lee, DeMint, Paul, Gov Walker, Sessions, Gowdy, Jordan, should comprise a tribunal and assume positions of authority to convene investigations, recommend appropriate charges against politicians and government employees to the new U.S. Attorney General appointed by the new President."







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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Wrong. It's not apples and oranges - it's apples and apples. It's federal land...which belongs to me just as much as it belongs to that rancher. What gives him the right to have his cattle crap all over that land every day, all the while ignoring those people - who own that land just as much as he does - who tell him that no, he can't have his cattle crap all over that land?

    You know what the answer is...but you're going to avoid it all day long, because you know I'm right and he's wrong. Not that you'd ever admit that, either.
    The fed govt should never have control of 84% of a state. It's outrageous, and the discussion of grazing rights should be within the state.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    One thing should be noted here, apparently Bundy hasn't refused to pay the fees, he's tried to pay them to to Clarke County NV. They have just refused to take the payments. So he's not exactly a deadbeat. He stopped paying the BLM because they were suppose to be there to assist ranchers in managing their land, when the BLM stopped doing that he stopped paying them. That sounds entirely reasonable to me. If you pay someone to do something and they stop doing it you should not have to pay them. Doesn't matter if its a private company or a government agency. He did still try and pay the fees that were owed to a different government agency though, they just refused to accept the payment.
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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    What is your source for that assumption? I mean even Cliven Bundy said that he refused to pay the grazing fee because of new provisions because or the turtles. When someone states that they refuse to pay a fee it means that what they were paying the fee for still exists. Possibly if the Bundy Ranch would have worked with the BLM in preserving habitat for these turtles they might still be able to have their cattle on public lands. but instead Bundy acted like a idiot and just broke the law consistently for a couple decades.

    The fact that Bundy Ranch has had their cattle grazing illegally shows that the BLM and hence the Government isnt that bad after all.
    I think there is a distinction between the fee and the fine.
    The fee is the normal charge, the fine was for grazing cattle on protected land.
    If their was a fine, there could no longer be a permit, because if he had a permit
    there could be no fine.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    One thing should be noted here, apparently Bundy hasn't refused to pay the fees, he's tried to pay them to to Clarke County NV. They have just refused to take the payments. So he's not exactly a deadbeat. He stopped paying the BLM because they were suppose to be there to assist ranchers in managing their land, when the BLM stopped doing that he stopped paying them. That sounds entirely reasonable to me. If you pay someone to do something and they stop doing it you should not have to pay them. Doesn't matter if its a private company or a government agency. He did still try and pay the fees that were owed to a different government agency though, they just refused to accept the payment.
    The land he leases doesn't belong to the state though.

    If you have a mortgage or lease a property, do you make your payments to the person - company - or corporation who is the lienholder - lessor, or, do you make payments to a place which has nothing to do with your lease - purchase?

    It doesn't get any simpler than that now, does it?

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    The land he leases doesn't belong to the state though.

    If you have a mortgage or lease a property, do you make your payments to the person - company - or corporation who is the lienholder - lessor, or, do you make payments to a place which has nothing to do with your lease - purchase?

    It doesn't get any simpler than that now, does it?
    I wouldn't exactly say that Nevada has nothing to do with that particular bit of land would you?
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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