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Thread: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

  1. #941
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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    If people can not refuse the sale of their property and must accept any offer provided to them by the government, then yes, the government does own all the property of the country. If you remember correctly it was the Supreme Court that put the condition of fair market value on eminent domain transactions, but according to the Constitution no such condition exists. It also hardly matters to me if the government can't do what it desires to do since their desires do certain things does not trump the peoples rights.
    Well, then, get behind a Constitutional amendment to get rid of it.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance. It is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    You are assuming the Government would accept the money.
    It sounds like the BLM did not renew the permits to graze.
    What is your source for that assumption? I mean even Cliven Bundy said that he refused to pay the grazing fee because of new provisions because or the turtles. When someone states that they refuse to pay a fee it means that what they were paying the fee for still exists. Possibly if the Bundy Ranch would have worked with the BLM in preserving habitat for these turtles they might still be able to have their cattle on public lands. but instead Bundy acted like a idiot and just broke the law consistently for a couple decades.

    The fact that Bundy Ranch has had their cattle grazing illegally shows that the BLM and hence the Government isnt that bad after all.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Only about 40% of the people supported independence from England. If you claim was factual that would mean that 60% of the population either died or went to England. What do you think the likelihood of that is? They also didn't put their lives behind the Constitution since it didn't exist until some years after the war.



    I interpreted it correctly.



    What he just said is because people died to put this country in place, the people that followed them have no right to destroy it. That the government that they put in place shall exist forever no matter what.
    I am thinking that people like George Washington would not agree with you. You Remember President Washington right? He was a famous military figure from the American Revolution. ANd you 40% figure came from where? stormfront?

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    What is your source for that assumption? I mean even Cliven Bundy said that he refused to pay the grazing fee because of new provisions because or the turtles.
    The Washington Post reports:

    The Bureau of Land Management, which oversees about 800 grazing areas in Nevada, responded by revoking his permit. Bundy has not applied for a new one.

    How important is this turtle? The Associated Press reports:

    Federal funds are running out at the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center and officials plan to close the site and euthanize hundreds of the tortoises they've been caring for since the animals were added to the endangered species list in 1990. . .

    Back at the conservation center, a large refrigerator labeled "carcass freezer" hummed in the desert sun as scientists examined the facility's 1,400 inhabitants to find those hearty enough to release into the wild. Officials expect to euthanize more than half the animals in the coming months in preparation for closure at the end of 2014.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    The fact that Bundy Ranch has had their cattle grazing illegally shows that the BLM and hence the Government isnt that bad after all.
    Rosa Parks also broke a law.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Rosa Parks also broke a law.
    But she paid her bus fare.
    "The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance. It is the illusion of knowledge" Stephen Hawking

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    But she paid her bus fare.
    Is that the crux of the issue for you?

    I'm not following this saga all that closely but my understanding is that Bundy was willing to pay but those who he sent the money to refused to accept it.

    Now what, from where you stand?

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    The Washington Post reports:

    The Bureau of Land Management, which oversees about 800 grazing areas in Nevada, responded by revoking his permit. Bundy has not applied for a new one.
    Well the Bundy"s posted this article on THEI blogspot that states: "Five years before that, when grazing was legal, Bundy stopped paying federal fees for the right."


    perhaps though you should show that article to Cliven daughter since she is where I got my information from. Clive Bundy and his daughter Shiree Bundy are asking for your help | Dr. Orly Taitz, Esquire


    "My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve. Instead they began using these moneys against the ranchers. They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with their own grazing fees. When they offered to buy my dad out for a pittance he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren’t doing their job. He quit paying the BLM but tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down."

    Now this is where you man up and admit that you were wrong.

    How important is this turtle? The Associated Press reports:

    Federal funds are running out at the Desert Tortoise Conservation Center and officials plan to close the site and euthanize hundreds of the tortoises they've been caring for since the animals were added to the endangered species list in 1990. . .

    Back at the conservation center, a large refrigerator labeled "carcass freezer" hummed in the desert sun as scientists examined the facility's 1,400 inhabitants to find those hearty enough to release into the wild. Officials expect to euthanize more than half the animals in the coming months in preparation for closure at the end of 2014.
    I didnt say that the turtle was important, never even implied it. I only brought it up since it was part of the facts. So put away your anti turtle stance its irrelevant.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Rosa Parks also broke a law.
    That isnt even the same concept at all. Nice try though. But I cant help to notice that you ignored the fact that the cattle have been grazing for 20 years without any attempt to stop them other than legal actions which Bundy also ignored. If the government was so bad one would think that they would have done something sooner and that they wouldnt have stopped taking them the other day just because some rednecks on horses came ridding up to them. Seriously a bad tyrannical government would have shot their asses dead on the spot. But they did no such thing because the conspiracy nuts are well nuts and wrong.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    That isnt even the same concept at all.
    Identical concept in play. The objection was that he was in the wrong because he was breaking the law. Rosa Parks broke the law too. Now the focus shifts onto whether the law was just. Well, is it?

    If this turtle is so important that the Feds need to be stripping all of the ranchers in the area of their grazing land, and Cliven Bundy is now the very last rancher still operating in that area, then why are the Feds euthanizing the turtles in their preservation center?

    The fact that the turtles are being euthanized suggests to me that the turtles are not that important. If the turtles are not that important then the revokation of grazing access to all of the ranchers in that area wasn't necessary. This puts us well into legitimate debate about whether that law is justified.

    There is also a secondary issue in play. Is the government the master of the people or their servant? The Feds are closing the turtle preservation center due to a lack of funds but the Feds had plenty of money to devote to deploying all the equipment and personnel to enforce their will on the Bundy ranch. If the turtle was so important then that money could have instead been allocated towards keeping the center open and the turtles alive. Instead it seems that it was very important to use Federal assets and incur expenses to show the people who is boss, no matter that this is a protest of conscience.

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