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Thread: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    Some of it is inferred from the quote in the article at the beginning of this thread from the BLM.

    Since we know He was using the land and paying the fees before then, and two decades ago
    the illegal grazing started. I think they stopped issuing grazing permits.
    The price per AUM has been the same since 1986, so it was not a price increase.
    FYI the AUM price is $1.35 per month per cow, so about $324,000 for 20 years.
    Ah, well, as I posted from the OP, that wasn't the reason he stopped and there is absolutely no mention anywhere that the feds stopped accepting payments at that time.

    324k + fines and interest over 20 years easily equals the 1.1 million he owes now.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    You are assuming the Government would accept the money.
    It sounds like the BLM did not renew the permits to graze.
    No, it doesn't "sound" like that at all. It's sounds like just what is reported - he stopped paying because he thought he had a right to use those lands for free because his Mormon ancestors did.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Ah, well, as I posted from the OP, that wasn't the reason he stopped and there is absolutely no mention anywhere that the feds stopped accepting payments at that time.

    324k + fines and interest over 20 years easily equals the 1.1 million he owes now.
    How do you know the reason he stopped paying?
    Why would a person who has been paying a license fee his whole life,
    for access to resources that fund his livelihood, suddenly stop paying?
    We are talking $16K a year.
    I don't know about before 1966, but they started collecting AUM fees for sure in 1966.
    He would have been paying that fee his entire adult life.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I agree with most of what you are proposing here, except that I posted earlier how this came to be...I think his argument was in the governments authority to impose the fees in the first place...But, his recourse would have been to pay up front, then lobby to change the law.
    Sure he can argue about the fees, but like you said, his proper recourse would have been to pay up front and lobby to change the law.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    No, it doesn't "sound" like that at all. It's sounds like just what is reported - he stopped paying because he thought he had a right to use those lands for free because his Mormon ancestors did.
    Everything you need to know about the long fight between Cliven Bundy and the federal government
    The section for 1993 is as follows,
    March 1993: The Washington Post publishes a story about the federal government's efforts to protect the desert tortoise in Nevada. Near Las Vegas, the Bureau of Land Management designated hundreds of thousands of acres of federal land for strict conservation efforts. "Among the conservation measures required," according to the Post's coverage, "are the elimination of livestock grazing and strict limits on off-road vehicle use in the protected tortoise habitat. Two weeks ago, the managers of the plan completed the task of purchasing grazing privileges from cattle ranchers who formerly used BLM land."

    Many people were not impressed by the new conservation plan. "Cliven Bundy, whose family homesteaded his ranch in 1877 and who accuses the government of a 'land grab,' are digging in for a fight and say they will not willingly sell their grazing privileges to create another preserve." People who use the desert to prospect for minerals and to race motorcycles and jeeps also feel shortchanged. "'It was shoved down our throat,' said Mark Trinko, who represents off-road vehicle users on the committee that oversees the plan."

    Bundy has repeatedly been fined for grazing his cattle on the protected land, fines he has not paid since 1993. The Bureau of Land Management, which oversees about 800 grazing areas in Nevada, responded by revoking his permit. Bundy has not applied for a new one.
    He could not have paid his grazing fees for a revoked permit.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    How do you know the reason he stopped paying?
    Why would a person who has been paying a license fee his whole life,
    for access to resources that fund his livelihood, suddenly stop paying?
    We are talking $16K a year.
    I don't know about before 1966, but they started collecting AUM fees for sure in 1966.
    He would have been paying that fee his entire adult life.
    I know the same way you do - every report that includes a reason says that's why he stopped. He's a Mormon and he "feels" he has a right to use that land for free because his ancestors did.

    As for the rest, the ranch has been in his family, could be 93 was when his folks retired and he was the one responsible for paying the fees.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I know the same way you do - every report that includes a reason says that's why he stopped. He's a Mormon and he "feels" he has a right to use that land for free because his ancestors did.

    As for the rest, the ranch has been in his family, could be 93 was when his folks retired and he was the one responsible for paying the fees.
    His permit to graze his cattle on federal land was revoked in 1993.
    Two weeks ago, the managers of the plan completed the task of purchasing grazing privileges from cattle ranchers who formerly used BLM land."

    Many people were not impressed by the new conservation plan. "Cliven Bundy, whose family homesteaded his ranch in 1877 and who accuses the government of a 'land grab,' are digging in for a fight and say they will not willingly sell their grazing privileges to create another preserve."

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    Everything you need to know about the long fight between Cliven Bundy and the federal government
    The section for 1993 is as follows,

    He could not have paid his grazing fees for a revoked permit.
    I think you need to re-read that. The BLM revoked his permit AFTER he stopped paying. I understand his refusal to sell his permit to the save the turtle folks, I think if that were the issue and he had continued paying on his permit, he'd have a case.

    When things like this happen (with the turtle thing), if the government isn't accepting your payments (and there is no hint of that happenning here), the only correct way to deal with that without almost always losing your land at the end, is to start an escrow account for the payments. Then off to court you go. THAT goes a very long way in court.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    His permit to graze his cattle on federal land was revoked in 1993.
    Only AFTER he stopped paying:

    Bundy has repeatedly been fined for grazing his cattle on the protected land, fines he has not paid since 1993. The Bureau of Land Management, which oversees about 800 grazing areas in Nevada, responded by revoking his permit. Bundy has not applied for a new one.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    I think you need to re-read that. The BLM revoked his permit AFTER he stopped paying. I understand his refusal to sell his permit to the save the turtle folks, I think if that were the issue and he had continued paying on his permit, he'd have a case.

    When things like this happen (with the turtle thing), if the government isn't accepting your payments (and there is no hint of that happenning here), the only correct way to deal with that without almost always losing your land at the end, is to start an escrow account for the payments. Then off to court you go. THAT goes a very long way in court.
    The Government was buying up all of the permits for that section, no further grazing.
    He refused to sell his back, as it would end his ranch.
    I think this is a new area of the law, paid public access of government property.
    By revoking his permit, they reduced the value of his his small ranch,
    and destroyed his livelihood.

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