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Thread: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
    If this is public land, then this guy is one of the owners of that land. So since he is an owner why cant he use it?
    Because I own it too, and I say he can't, not without paying for it.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Because I own it too, and I say he can't, not without paying for it.
    So is it accurate to say that according to you it makes sense to say everyone owns the property, but everyone has to pay the government to use it?

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Sounds like you don't like America. Maybe you should leave?
    Exactly why would I like America? What would be my reason to like it exactly?

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So is it accurate to say that according to you it makes sense to say everyone owns the property, but everyone has to pay the government to use it?
    Yep.

    We all own the land, but we can't all have cattle there. If an individual wants to run cattle on land that all of us own, then he must pay a fee to the rest of us. Land owned in common doesn't mean that anyone can do just anything with that land.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yep.

    We all own the land, but we can't all have cattle there. If an individual wants to run cattle on land that all of us own, then he must pay a fee to the rest of us. Land owned in common doesn't mean that anyone can do just anything with that land.
    For one thing, the idea of commonly owned property is the dumbest concept known to man. For another, controlling use of property with fees only helps those with more to spend and harms those with less. It's an absolutely ridiculous way to control the use of property. If everyone supposedly owns the property in question then you can't give favor to some over others.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    For one thing, the idea of commonly owned property is the dumbest concept known to man. For another, controlling use of property with fees only helps those with more to spend and harms those with less. It's an absolutely ridiculous way to control the use of property. If everyone supposedly owns the property in question then you can't give favor to some over others.
    First, I disagree that commonly owned property is a bad idea. Without the national forests, national parks, and lands administered by the BLM we'd all be out a great resource for both recreation and business enterprises.

    Secondly, it's not controlled by fees only. You can't pay a fee, for example, and use national park land for grazing, logging, or mining.

    If it's my property, then I determine who uses it, for what purpose, and at what cost. If it's our property, then we determine who uses it, for what purpose, and at what cost.

    But in no case is it OK to use property you don't own all by yourself for whatever purpose you want and without paying some sort of fee. If you think it is, then go ahead, build an apartment building, then allow anyone who wants to live there rent free.
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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Maybe this will help you figure it out Wildlife for Arizona's 21st Century



    or this Attachment 67164916

    maybe this will aid your search for answers Attachment 67164917

    who knows maybe even this picture will help Attachment 67164918

    Then of course there is always this possibility Attachment 67164919
    Although the photo is not from North Dakota - it could be: Much Of North Dakota's Natural Gas Is Going Up In Flames : NPR
    Nope, I said the specific use that Bundy's grazing is denying some other use. This means someone else needed to have tried to use that land and could not because of Bundy. This does not mean some other group trying to use some other Public land somewhere else.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Because I own it too, and I say he can't, not without paying for it.
    I would agree with you only if his use denies someone else the free use of the land. This is public land, and I find no harm in the use of it by the public.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    Yep.

    We all own the land, but we can't all have cattle there. If an individual wants to run cattle on land that all of us own, then he must pay a fee to the rest of us. Land owned in common doesn't mean that anyone can do just anything with that land.
    No, but everyone should be able to use it in a manner that doesn't either harm the land or preclude it's use by others. In the case were the land is serving no purpose other than grazing, then he should be able to use it as such unfettered unless there were some conflict with others using it for the same or another purpose.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    First, I disagree that commonly owned property is a bad idea. Without the national forests, national parks, and lands administered by the BLM we'd all be out a great resource for both recreation and business enterprises.
    Commonly owned property, much like any other collective ownership scheme, is a scheme where the interests of property owners are in consistent conflict. To conclude that collective owned property is beneficial is nonsensical, as collective owned property is less productive and more open to abuse by the property owners than individually owned property due to the interest of those that own the property being less invested in the property.

    Secondly, it's not controlled by fees only. You can't pay a fee, for example, and use national park land for grazing, logging, or mining.
    Yes, but the use of the property is very much controlled by the fees. If the property owner in question can't afford the fees then they can't use their own property.

    If it's my property, then I determine who uses it, for what purpose, and at what cost. If it's our property, then we determine who uses it, for what purpose, and at what cost.
    If everyone owns the property then everyone has the right to use the property. If there is a fee to use the property there is going to be people that can't practice their rights.

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