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Thread: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

  1. #751
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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    A. Incidents of arrests of Clyde Bundy's ilk.

    Cliff Gardner is sentenced to a month in a Reno halfway house, along with a $5,000 fine and a year of probation. He has been under house arrest for the three previous months for not taking his cattle off of federal land. When his sentence — which affirmed the U.S. Forest Service's authority over the disputed land — was announced, more than 50 states' rights protesters were in the courtroom with him.
    B. Incidents of domestic terrorism by Clyde Bundy's ilk.

    Thursday evening, a small bomb went off in the U.S. Forest Service office in Carson City, Nev.
    Though no one has taken responsibility -- and no one was injured -- it has sent chills through government agencies involved in Western land management.
    "If it was sent as a message," says Forest Service spokeswoman Erin O'Connor, "we got it."
    Everything you need to know about the long fight between Cliven Bundy and the federal government

    And you Bundy leg humpers are worried about the heavy handedness of the federal government. It's a good thing that innocent BLM and Forest Service office personnel weren't injured or killed in these targeted acts of domestic terrorism, that would've put a whole new face on this.

    http://www.hcn.org/issues/33/970

    A bomb blew out windows and ripped a hole in the wall of a Toiyabe Forest Service office in Carson City, Nev., in the early evening of March 30. No one was injured in the explosion, which scattered debris and damaged computer equipment in the office of District Ranger Guy Pence in downtown Carson City. The day before, a pipe bomb blew up a concrete toilet in a Forest Service campground near Elko, Nev., and on March 31, the Toiyabe National Forest headquaters in Sparks, Nev., had to be evacuated after a receptionist reportedly received a call saying: "You're next."
    Last edited by AJiveMan; 04-16-14 at 06:39 AM.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    You know those SWAT teams which bust into people's homes with No-Knock raids, shoot and kill people and then realize that they made a mistake, well they're Americans too. You remember those LA cops shooting 78 rounds at a newspaper delivery woman and her mom during the Dorner manhunt? Why did they shoot? Why was the life of a Police Captain worth so much more than the lives of two old women? Those cops were all Americans too. They placed allegiance to fellow officers and superiors above allegiance to their oath.
    yep, those SWAT members were Americans, too. they made a mistake. a huge one. but there is nothing which indicates they were intending to do the wrong thing. little different than friendly fire taking out our own. by accident, in the midst of chaos. Americans, thinking they are doing the right thing at the moment they inflict their damage. you do understand the difference between intentional and unintentional outcomes? well, that post indicates otherwise. possibly you fired for effect and unintentionally hit the wrong target with your words: Americans doing their jobs as they understood them to be

    There is a problem here and it's that many citizens now believe that Federal employees grant greater allegiance to the Federal Government, their bosses, their coworkers and their paychecks than they place do the nation and its citizens.
    and the problem you have identified is that there are people who are willing to subscribe to such hokum. every federal employee takes a oath to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States. and if they are found failing to do so, they lose their job

    We've all seen the statistics about how DC is pretty much recession proof - the government keeps growing, its employees continue to do well for themselves, and the rest of the nation suffers. How many employees are going to jump off that gravy train. How many employees are going to abide by Nuremberg Rules, that illegal orders do not have to be followed when they stand to lose their job, their pension, their good name. We see what happens with NSA whistleblowers from the pre-Snowden era.
    most of those employees are good Americans doing their jobs, serving their country, as they understand their assignments to be. they have union representatives who can act on their behalf to inquire about assignments they see as inconsistent with their sworn duties. they have whistleblowing ability to report wrongdoing. what i see from that portion of your post is the envy of someone who resents that federal employees have the security of employment that is all too rare in the private sector these days. rather than resenting that positive attribute we should be finding out how to expand that job security to other aspects of employment in our nation

    What went down in Nevada is serious stuff, not because a bunch of yahoos took up a cause, but because a bunch of people have had enough of how powerful and unjust and unaccountable the Federal Government has become and this case was, to them, a good enough symbol of all that is wrong and how they don't trust DC to be working in the interests of the people.
    and you look at the situation and come away with the wrong conclusion about what initiated it. this is nothing more than a federal office taking appropriate action on behalf of the American people. the bureau had completed the litigation portion of noncompliance with federal rules and regulations such that a court found against a rancher who used public lands without authorization and without compensation to the public. the bureau was using time tested methods to secure the available assets of that debtor, such that those secured assets could then be sold at public auction with the proceeds being used to pay down/pay off the debt owed to the American public. notice the actual theme here? American workers, following federal laws, rules and regulations. federal employees taking action to protect the interests of American citizens
    and you have a small bunch of armed citizens who object to the federal government enforcing the laws of the land. snipers who were prepared to fire upon other citizens doing their jobs on behalf of the American people. that is who your post so wrongly defends

    This is cut from the same cloth as the OWS protests but instead of focusing on Big Business, this is focused on Government.
    NO, NO, NO, NO,NO, NO,NO, NO,NO, NO,NO, NO,NO, NO,NO, NO,NO, NO,NO, NO,NO, NO,NO, NO! i can understand why you would seek to co-opt the actions of America citizens who were publicly protesting public policy which works against the average citizen. but there is a massive difference. the OWS protesters did not set up sniping positions to fire upon other American citizens. i can understand why you would want to imbue the legitimacy of the OWS protests with the wrongful actions of these traitors on horseback. it is because there is no justifiable defense for the cowboys' willingness to act against its country. you want to paint the passive protests of the OWS protesters as the equivalent of extremist ranchers who were prepared to shoot and kill other citizens who were doing their jobs, and doing them legally and peacefully. i cannot adequately express how wrong it is to equate the actions of the OWS with those of these ranchers

    These kinds of events are going to increase in the coming years because we're no longer a nation bound together, to each other. These protesters didn't see the Feds as part of them, they saw the Feds as overlords, as foreign rulers. And as for the agents being Americans, look through history and look at the people who were the blunt hammer of the oppressors, it's always people drawn from the population. Who do you think will be the oppressors of Americans, the Guatemalans?
    what will keep our country free from such an outcomes is for Americans to defend and protect the Constitution of the USA. which is exactly what the federal employees were doing. and that was what the ranchers opposed. and yet, you defend their unAmerican actions. pathetic
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Three Words To Remember....guess where they come from:


    "Foreign And Domestic"

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    The Tragedy of the Commons is an example of a Market Failure. Even libertarians recognize that there is a government role in cases of market failures. If you have a finite resource: Public Land. With finite resources on it: Forage, Water, Plants and Animals, then there has to be a way of managing that resource for future generations and all interests.
    And libertarians argue for minimal govt. An illegaly created federal bureaucracy operating 1000 miles away from what they are managing with arbitrary decisions is not minimal. A libertarian would support LOCAL people deciding whats needed and what to do about it, among themselves. Libertarians do not support the concept of centralized common ownership of property.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Thats great have you files a suit yet?
    No need, and no point. The govt will just rule in its own favor and we've come too far to correct all the wrong done in the name of the common good.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Anyway, im done with this topic. I think it was a good test case showing exactly how different ideologies view the role of govt.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    And libertarians argue for minimal govt. An illegaly created federal bureaucracy operating 1000 miles away from what they are managing with arbitrary decisions is not minimal. A libertarian would support LOCAL people deciding whats needed and what to do about it, among themselves. Libertarians do not support the concept of centralized common ownership of property.
    Its funny to me that some libertarians always call the entire concept of public land "illegal" and unconstitutional, yet it has never been successfully challenged in the federal court system. Just because you believe something to be illegal does not make it so, at some point you actually have to get the courts to agree with you.
    "You're the only person that decides how far you'll go and what you're capable of." - Ben Saunders (Explorer and Endurance Athlete)

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Of course they're not... are you trying to be obtuse here or what?
    No. I'm pointing out that there are protestors that many here would support, or at least romanticize, while at the same time condemning Bundy. Some that were far more violent than than Bundy's.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernDemocrat View Post
    Its funny to me that some libertarians always call the entire concept of public land "illegal" and unconstitutional, yet it has never been successfully challenged in the federal court system. Just because you believe something to be illegal does not make it so, at some point you actually have to get the courts to agree with you.
    That is because libertarianism - at least for many - is a highly axiomatic system based almost exclusively on self adopted beliefs. Reality and legality is something they generally do not allow to bother them or their self imposed belief system.
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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    ...every federal employee takes a oath to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States. and if they are found failing to do so, they lose their job...
    Unless you're the President, or any Progressive....Then you get to interpret it anyway that suits your argument.
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