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Thread: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

  1. #511
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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    A Libertarian... now that is a difficult cat to pin down... you seem to have A version you wish to use but there are a many Libertarian types out there as there are Libs or CONs.

    You warp the facts on the ground. First you forget the range wars where early ranchers thought they owned all the land they could use, and not pay anything for that use. As territories the Federal Government ran the lands, hence had first claim before statehood.

    Then you forget as the West was settled, to be fair to everyone, you either bought the land to use or rented it from the unassigned lands. many cattle barons were outraged they couldn't run cattle wherever they felt like it... but at least they now knew how the early Spanish settlers felt when their 'royal deeds' were ignored by the supplanting Anglos...

    You obviously don't know the BLM, it isn't a huge bureaucracy, but quite under-strength and relies on the honor system for land management. Bundy has not paid for YEARS, a very small rent compared to if he wanted to use private land.

    The Nevada cattleman's association, not a Lib group by any means hasn't sided with Bundy because they know it isn't fair for one rancher to break the law and the others obey it.

    I would opine a Libertarian would say, min gubmint yes, but no gubmint is worse. Bundy wants NO Gubmint. if we all can't run cattle on public lands rent free and anyplace we want why should a very select few get that 'right'??? this was the argument as the Homestead act settled the west after statehood. free range was over.

    I'd say a Libertarian would say the public lands belong to everyone and not anyone in particular, their safeguarding belongs to the Federal Gubmint that uses a series of LOCAL offices to manage the lands for us all.
    Id say this is a good example for showing people what the real difference is between the differing ideologies.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Nothing? Yet the G has been waiting for 20 years to do something. Seems you are wrong.
    I am not wrong. You have absolutely no grounds to state that the law in this case is "unconstitutional".
    Bundy doesn't like the law because Bill Clinton beat George Bush senior in 1993. Before that Bundy paid the land use fees to the BLM without incident. When Reagan and Bush daddy were the chief executives the land use fees were apparently OK with Bundy.
    Bundy has no grounds to call the law unconstitutional that's been clearly shown in court...your agreeing with him gives you exactly nothing.
    The BLM is largely a management bureau not a law enforcement organization. They gave Bundy ample time to plead his case in the courts over the years and he lost big at every turn.
    It is now time to collect what is owed and stop Bundy from breaking the law anymore.
    As I stated before you got nothin'.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    Apparently since there are a bunch of ignorant uneducated people in this thread I need to say this again.

    The Homestead act of 1862 proves that the Federal Government legally owned the State of Nevada long before the Bundy's came to Nevada. The Homestead Act, enacted during the Civil War in 1862, provided that any adult citizen, or intended citizen, who had never borne arms against the U.S. government could claim 160 acres of surveyed government land.

    es[/url]
    Except the homestead act is unconstutional. Govt cant pass a law giving themselves power. 10th amendment, look it up. Youre using laws that congress passed to justify laws that congress passed.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    I am not wrong. You have absolutely no grounds to state that the law in this case is "unconstitutional".
    Bundy doesn't like the law because Bill Clinton beat George Bush senior in 1993. Before that Bundy paid the land use fees to the BLM without incident. When Reagan and Bush daddy were the chief executives the land use fees were apparently OK with Bundy.
    Bundy has no grounds to call the law unconstitutional that's bee shown in court...your agreeing with him gives you exactly nothing.
    The BLM is largely a management bureau not a law enforcement organization. They gave Bundy ample time to plead his case in the courts over the years and he lost big at every turn.
    It is now time to collect what is owed and stop Bundy from breaking the law anymore.
    As I stated before you got nothin'.
    Not LEO? So where did they get the guns and stunners?

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    that taking of property was to satisfy the just and legal obligations to the government
    nothing unConstitutional about that
    Clearly they knew they were wrong, they gave them back.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Id say this is a good example for showing people what the real difference is between the differing ideologies.
    you are correct on this point
    some examine the factual circumstances and then form an opinion
    others establish an opinion and then seek to find something - often anything, no matter how NON-factual - to bolster it
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by beefheart View Post
    Are foreclosures unconstitutiona?

    Not paying your bills is unlawful...correct?
    Your home is not "yours" as long as there is a mortgage. But you keep playing apples and oranges.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Clearly they knew they were wrong, they gave them back.
    then you have not been reading the cites provided within this thread

    the reason for the release of the cattle was due to concerns about potential physical harm resulting if the government went further with its efforts to offset the judgment with proceeds from the sale of the debtor's cattle
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    It is not his land. Why am I the only conservative here who understands that concept?
    When a person owns land, that land has boundaries which separates land he owns and pays taxes on from other people's land or government owned land. This land is outlined by surveyors who outline the exact measurements and recorded in the local tax office by lot and block (some area's use different terminology). His land is, using a metaphor, an island.

    I'm not sure what you think you understand, but at a practical level, it sounds like what you understand is incorrect.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Not LEO? So where did they get the guns and stunners?
    interesting how you read things into peoples post.

    BLM does have law enforcement people. BUT the primary purpose of BLM is to manage the public lands.

    Where do you think the LEO's got the guns and stunners?

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