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Thread: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    [SIZE=7]He has more claim than the federal govt[/SIZE
    Sorry jonny ...You know not of which you speak.
    What about Bundy’s claim that his forebears bought the land he is now accused of trespass grazing upon? This land was once Mexican land, and was won by the United States after the Mexican-American War. It is part of what is known as the “Mexican Cession.” All of Nevada, California, Arizona and most of New Mexico were part of the Cession. Much of this land was privatized under various grants and laws such as the Homestead Act and the Desert Lands Act, plus mining claims. Several million acres were granted to Nevada for state lands, but those lands that were not privatized have always been Mexican lands or United States lands owned by the U.S. government.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    No, that's what you're saying. Tax? Penalty? User fee? These terms were interchangeable when the administration wanted to pass the ACA, depending on exactly who was asking. Now you're saying such things make a significant difference. You guys are just a hoot.
    Go ahead and pay your income tax to the Bureau of Land Management... Write them the check...That should be a real "HOOT"...
    Last edited by Buck Ewer; 04-15-14 at 02:06 PM.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    If one owes the government money, it doesn't matter to which entity within the government you owe it to or how you characterize it. You owe it. Stop trying to veil the true issue.


    Cattle? You're missing the point. Bundy makes his living raising cattle. It's his source of income. Sharpton makes his living at NAN, MSNBC, and other places. It's his source of income.
    You're trying to change the subject or topic of the thread. Taxes are different than user fees, if you don't know the difference, stop paying your rent or mortgage payment for a couple of years, you'll figure it out.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Bundy owes the federal government money. Sharpton owes the federal government money. It doesn't matter which entity within the government either of them owes. Sharpton is not bothered with armed federal agents attempting to collect his debt. Bundy is. Your failure to notice such a thing just demonstrates your faith in the government to punish it's perceived enemies, and ignore the transgressions of it's perceived friends.
    I'm sorry, I'm not buying your smoke screen talking point. It's not relevant to this situation and amounts to nothing more than a stupid argument that Bundy doesn't have to follow the law because Holder isn't going after Sharpton for taxes.

    BTW, people owe taxes and aren't automatically carted off to prison. Bundy, on the other hand, continued to steal by taking his cattle onto those lands over and over again despite being told not to. If you are in the act of committing a crime, the state has the right to intervene.
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
    http://soulinblackandwhite.blogspot.com/

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    What doesn't matter is you conflating Sharpton owing taxes to Bundy owing fees and gathering armed folks support his theft.

    Sharpton has nothing to do with this situation. You bringing this up amounts to nothing more than a smoke screen.
    You're too nice, I call it bullsheet.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    Does that change the fact he's stealing?
    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    I'll bet many people used brothels before prostitution became illegal....yet they would be jailed for doing so now....except in Nevada....hmmmmm
    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    So you're sayin' he' got the right to squat since his family's been using the land for years? What are the grandfather rights in Nevada? do you know?
    I'd suggest that y'all read this eminently fair article about the situation before supporting an armed eviction of Cliven Bundy and his cattle.
    Why You Should Be Sympathetic Toward Cliven Bundy | Power Line

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Go ahead and pay your income tax to the Bureau of Land Management... Write them the check...That should be a "HOOT"...
    I can't help you there. The treasury doesn't care about the sources of their income. The debtor's bank account doesn't care whether the check is made out to the IRS, BLM or any other alphabet agency. And no, I don't expect you to understand something so fundamental.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    A libertarian believes in MINIMAL govt. A huge federal bureaucracy in Washington, telling someone 1000 miles away in Nevada where his cows can graze is not something someone who believes in minimal govt would support. You might have an argument if the local ranchers had their own LOCAL system for managing the land such that everyone had fair access. But they arent allowed.
    A Libertarian... now that is a difficult cat to pin down... you seem to have A version you wish to use but there are a many Libertarian types out there as there are Libs or CONs.

    You warp the facts on the ground. First you forget the range wars where early ranchers thought they owned all the land they could use, and not pay anything for that use. As territories the Federal Government ran the lands, hence had first claim before statehood.

    Then you forget as the West was settled, to be fair to everyone, you either bought the land to use or rented it from the unassigned lands. many cattle barons were outraged they couldn't run cattle wherever they felt like it... but at least they now knew how the early Spanish settlers felt when their 'royal deeds' were ignored by the supplanting Anglos...

    You obviously don't know the BLM, it isn't a huge bureaucracy, but quite under-strength and relies on the honor system for land management. Bundy has not paid for YEARS, a very small rent compared to if he wanted to use private land.

    The Nevada cattleman's association, not a Lib group by any means hasn't sided with Bundy because they know it isn't fair for one rancher to break the law and the others obey it.

    I would opine a Libertarian would say, min gubmint yes, but no gubmint is worse. Bundy wants NO Gubmint. if we all can't run cattle on public lands rent free and anyplace we want why should a very select few get that 'right'??? this was the argument as the Homestead act settled the west after statehood. free range was over.

    I'd say a Libertarian would say the public lands belong to everyone and not anyone in particular, their safeguarding belongs to the Federal Gubmint that uses a series of LOCAL offices to manage the lands for us all.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    You're trying to change the subject or topic of the thread. Taxes are different than user fees, if you don't know the difference, stop paying your rent or mortgage payment for a couple of years, you'll figure it out.
    No I'm not. You are. The reason the federal agents are involved is because they claim Bundy owes them money. It wouldn't matter whether it was the IRS, BLM, or any other agency within the government. The debt is what precipitated the action. Exactly which of the agencies Bundy owes the money to is a moot point trotted out to cover the selective nature of the attempted enforcement.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I'd suggest that y'all read this eminently fair article about the situation before supporting an armed eviction of Cliven Bundy and his cattle.
    Why You Should Be Sympathetic Toward Cliven Bundy | Power Line
    I'm not sympathetic to anyone who owes money, if you owe money, pay it.

    I don't care if Clyde has been there since 1700. He leases the land he uses, leases usually involve monetary compensation. If you can't afford or are not willing to pay the lease fees, then get the hell off the land.

    This is also true for oil companies who lease government land for extracting oil from government owned lands, and it's true for logging companies who cut timber on National Forest Lands.

    What part of leasing don't some of the people here understand?

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