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Thread: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Doesn't matter.
    Of course it matters. Land user fees come under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management.
    A tax would come under the jurisdiction of the Internal Revenue Service.
    It doesn't matter if you are ignorant of the law, is what you are saying.
    .

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    The BLM, the National Forest Service, and the National Park service were all set up by the elected representatives of the people to take care of the land that belongs to all of us. No one entity controls 90% of any state. Parts of the public land in Nevada are administered by the other two entities as well.
    You didnt answer the question. What is libertarian about a centralized govt managing where cows eat grass?

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Yes it does, the subject is not paying user fees, not taxes. Stop trying to bend sheeet your own way.
    If one owes the government money, it doesn't matter to which entity within the government you owe it to or how you characterize it. You owe it. Stop trying to veil the true issue.
    How many cattle does Al Sharpton own?
    Cattle? You're missing the point. Bundy makes his living raising cattle. It's his source of income. Sharpton makes his living at NAN, MSNBC, and other places. It's his source of income.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    You didnt answer the question. What is libertarian about a centralized govt managing where cows eat grass?
    Well it COULD be managing public lands so the land is not abused by 'takers' who don't live in a big city. I'd say a libertarian shouldn't care a great deal how you graze cows on PRIVATE lands, but on public lands that belong to more than one rancher...

    If not then why not free range in every public park, forest, grassland, reserve??? And not to make too fine a point of it, why not just let whoever wants to use it do so free of charge... which is what Bundy was doing... 900 cows can eat 13 pounds of dry matter a day- I wish I could get free grazing like that!!!!

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    [B]Cliven Bundy Has No Claim to Federal Land and Grazing
    He has more claim than the federal govt

    Amendment V

    No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

    Amendment X

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Tettsuo View Post
    What doesn't matter is you conflating Sharpton owing taxes to Bundy owing fees and gathering armed folks support his theft.

    Sharpton has nothing to do with this situation. You bringing this up amounts to nothing more than a smoke screen.
    Bundy owes the federal government money. Sharpton owes the federal government money. It doesn't matter which entity within the government either of them owes. Sharpton is not bothered with armed federal agents attempting to collect his debt. Bundy is. Your failure to notice such a thing just demonstrates your faith in the government to punish it's perceived enemies, and ignore the transgressions of it's perceived friends.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Before the Taylor Grazing Act, these government lands were called “the public domain.” They could be privatized, as mentioned, under the Homestead Act and such, but the acreage allowed per homesteader was limited to 160 acres. There were no 158,000 acre homestead privatizations and certainly no 750,000 acre privatizations. Livestock owners ran their livestock freely without a permit on the public domain. They didn’t even need a home base of property (a ranch). The result was disaster because the operator to find green grass and eat it first won out, promoting very bad grazing practices. That was the reason for Taylor Grazing Act — ranchers and others could see the public domain system led to disaster on the ground. Therefore, the more powerful ranchers with “base” private property received grazing permits. This got rid of the landless livestock operators.

    Taylor Grazing was administered on the ground by the U.S. Grazing Service. Now, ranchers with grazing permits had to pay a grazing fee to use their permits. Bundy’s ancestors probably got one of these grazing permits, but they most certainly did not buy the land. That was not possible. The public domain was not for sale and ranchers generally did not want it. After all, if they owned it, they would owe local property tax.
    Cliven Bundy Has No Claim to Federal Land and Grazing | The Wildlife News

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by notquiteright View Post
    Well it COULD be managing public lands so the land is not abused by 'takers' who don't live in a big city. I'd say a libertarian shouldn't care a great deal how you graze cows on PRIVATE lands, but on public lands that belong to more than one rancher...

    If not then why not free range in every public park, forest, grassland, reserve??? And not to make too fine a point of it, why not just let whoever wants to use it do so free of charge... which is what Bundy was doing... 900 cows can eat 13 pounds of dry matter a day- I wish I could get free grazing like that!!!!
    A libertarian believes in MINIMAL govt. A huge federal bureaucracy in Washington, telling someone 1000 miles away in Nevada where his cows can graze is not something someone who believes in minimal govt would support. You might have an argument if the local ranchers had their own LOCAL system for managing the land such that everyone had fair access. But they arent allowed.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Amendment X

    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Ewer View Post
    Of course it matters. Land user fees come under the jurisdiction of the Bureau of Land Management.
    A tax would come under the jurisdiction of the Internal Revenue Service.
    It doesn't matter if you are ignorant of the law, is what you are saying.
    .
    No, that's what you're saying. Tax? Penalty? User fee? These terms were interchangeable when the administration wanted to pass the ACA, depending on exactly who was asking. Now you're saying such things make a significant difference. You guys are just a hoot.

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