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Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

Follow your own advice.

The reality is there's a fee that should be paid and a schedule to be followed. Bundy did not pay that fee for 20 years. Reality is, he's a thief. You're supporting a common criminal.

Bundy should pay his fees, I agree....But at this point, they are just throwing out wild numbers like a million dollars, when the actual arrears are more like $300K...both sides of this are being just a little disingenuous...But, I will say that the ESA that started this whole mess, is probably the most Unconstitutional way for the government to just grab land, and control people that has ever been devised.
 
Yes, there is also the issue of the desert tortoise, so the land isn't being controlled by fees only.

The elected representatives of the people who own this land that Bundy wants to call "his", which really isn't and never was his passed the endangered species act. Now, you can disagree with that act, or with the way the courts have interpreted that act all you want, but it is a law that was made through the democratic process. Until it is repealed, it stands as one of the ways in which the use public land is controlled.

along with fees, which Bundy has not paid.

and yes, the law if eminent domain raises some hackles from time to time as well, but that, too is a law passed by democratic processes. Should it be repealed, then there will be no new roads, railroads, irrigation projects, or a whole lot of things that could be blocked by one property owner who refuses to sell.

But eminent domain does not apply here as the land in question does not belong to Bundy anyway.

The turtle issue is a dead one....The conservation center plans to kill the tortoise....In a HuffPo article outing this fact, I think I may have found were the BLM comes up with their ridiculous $1 million claim:

"The Bureau of Land Management has paid for the holding and research facility with fees imposed on developers who disturb tortoise habitat on public land. As the housing boom swept through southern Nevada in the 2000s, the tortoise budget swelled. But when the recession hit, the housing market contracted, and the bureau and its local government partners began struggling to meet the center's $1 million annual budget."

Desert Tortoise Faces Threat From Conservation Center

This may be as simple as a good old fashioned shakedown...

And yes there are legitimate purposes for eminent domain, as laid out in the constitution as well. So, tell me Ditto, is there a road going through there? A hospital being proposed? A school? No....Also under eminent domain those being harmed by the grab are supposed to be compensated....What was offered Bundy for his loss of grazing rights that up to that point he happily complied with?
 
No....Also under eminent domain those being harmed by the grab are supposed to be compensated....

Being compensated for the property transfer really doesn't mean **** when you can't say no.
 
Being compensated for the property transfer really doesn't mean **** when you can't say no.

To be fair the property in question was never his, so compensation on that level is out, but up to 1993 when the BLM decided that they just had to protect a desert turtle, just declared it all of the sudden off limits, unless ranchers like Bundy paid fees to them to use it....Now, in the years that passed they were content to collect off the housing industry and construct a preserve near Vegas, but when the housing market crashed, so did their cash cow, pun intended, so now they ramp up the war on ranchers like Bundy....

It reminds me of watching Good Fella's.....
 
To be fair the property in question was never his, so compensation on that level is out, but up to 1993 when the BLM decided that they just had to protect a desert turtle, just declared it all of the sudden off limits, unless ranchers like Bundy paid fees to them to use it....Now, in the years that passed they were content to collect off the housing industry and construct a preserve near Vegas, but when the housing market crashed, so did their cash cow, pun intended, so now they ramp up the war on ranchers like Bundy....

It reminds me of watching Good Fella's.....

because the characters in Good Fella's were turtle lovers who made money by charging people to use their property :roll:
 
To be fair the property in question was never his, so compensation on that level is out, but up to 1993 when the BLM decided that they just had to protect a desert turtle, just declared it all of the sudden off limits, unless ranchers like Bundy paid fees to them to use it....Now, in the years that passed they were content to collect off the housing industry and construct a preserve near Vegas, but when the housing market crashed, so did their cash cow, pun intended, so now they ramp up the war on ranchers like Bundy....

It reminds me of watching Good Fella's.....

A species which is not endangered, nor in threat of being endangered.
 
because the characters in Good Fella's were turtle lovers who made money by charging people to use their property :roll:

Wow, I guess everything must be literal with you...sorry you misunderstood.
 
because the characters in Good Fella's were turtle lovers who made money by charging people to use their property :roll:

What makes you think the government actually cares about the turtles?
 
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I believe jackass (see photo) will need an attorney, maybe sooner, maybe later, but he will need one.

View attachment 67164931

And when the marshals come to pick him up, I hope they have this song on a cd and play it all the way to his holding cell.


Bobby Fuller Four - I Fought The Law ( And The Law Won) Lyrics - YouTube

It's okay to turn it up.

So you stand with government oppression....I am shocked....I think this is a better song...



And yes....Turn it up....
 
You know those SWAT teams which bust into people's homes with No-Knock raids, shoot and kill people and then realize that they made a mistake, well they're Americans too. You remember those LA cops shooting 78 rounds at a newspaper delivery woman and her mom during the Dorner manhunt? Why did they shoot? Why was the life of a Police Captain worth so much more than the lives of two old women? Those cops were all Americans too. They placed allegiance to fellow officers and superiors above allegiance to their oath.

There is a problem here and it's that many citizens now believe that Federal employees grant greater allegiance to the Federal Government, their bosses, their coworkers and their paychecks than they place do the nation and its citizens. We've all seen the statistics about how DC is pretty much recession proof - the government keeps growing, its employees continue to do well for themselves, and the rest of the nation suffers. How many employees are going to jump off that gravy train. How many employees are going to abide by Nuremberg Rules, that illegal orders do not have to be followed when they stand to lose their job, their pension, their good name. We see what happens with NSA whistleblowers from the pre-Snowden era.

What went down in Nevada is serious stuff, not because a bunch of yahoos took up a cause, but because a bunch of people have had enough of how powerful and unjust and unaccountable the Federal Government has become and this case was, to them, a good enough symbol of all that is wrong and how they don't trust DC to be working in the interests of the people. This is cut from the same cloth as the OWS protests but instead of focusing on Big Business, this is focused on Government.

These kinds of events are going to increase in the coming years because we're no longer a nation bound together, to each other. These protesters didn't see the Feds as part of them, they saw the Feds as overlords, as foreign rulers. And as for the agents being Americans, look through history and look at the people who were the blunt hammer of the oppressors, it's always people drawn from the population. Who do you think will be the oppressors of Americans, the Guatemalans?

Nice rant but the problem is that Cliven bundy chose to not pay grazing fees and now has two court orders to enforce the removal of his cattle from the allotments that he did not pay for. He made his bed and now he has to lay in it. But really he isnt doing all of this because he wants to graze animals on public land lets be honest he is trying to make a political statement at the expense of our tax dollars. This is no different than the occupiers taunting the police then crying about how the police tazed them.

In all reality the BLM has been very tame in everything that they have done.

Yes there are bad cops, yes there are bad federal employees, but a big ****ing conspiracy it isnt.
 
So you stand with government oppression....I am shocked....I think this is a better song...



And yes....Turn it up....
Oh yes, we Americans are so oppressed by our Gubbermint. :lamo

Did you ever rent, lease or buy a home or property? Did you pay?
 
Oh yes, we Americans are so oppressed by our Gubbermint. :lamo

I see....It's only oppression, if YOU say it is eh? Nah, your feeble attempt to mock opposition to your opinion is dismissed.
 
I see....It's only oppression, if YOU say it is eh? Nah, your feeble attempt to mock opposition to your opinion is dismissed.

Typical hard right wing response, by putting words in other people's mouths. You lost the debate already.
 
Sorry, but to conclude that "we" are the government is entirely wrong. "We" are not the government; the government is not "us." The government is the systematic predatory process over a given territorial area by political means. You're bitching about men and women standing up to an organization that more than likely they never consented to be part of, and clearly does not in any accurate sense represent them. If the government really was "us" it would represent all the people, but it's not even accurate to say it represents the majority of the people. Feel free to argue against what I just said if it makes you feel better, but I assure you what you learned in public school about how the government is "us" won't help you here.

I am not bitching about anything, you are and so are the Bundy's. And dude your insults about public school education is a sad ****ing ploy.

And no I didnt get my notions from anywhere except the US Constitution, perhaps you should read it sometime?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


And you might want to read the Gettysburg Address sometime as well, but you probably hate Lincoln huh?

"government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
 
You never read any of the laws of this country have you?

Laws that oppress Americans? not lately. But, if you want to go back in time to when white men rounded up Native Americans, stole their land, and placed them on reservations, we can go there if you wish, but it would be derailing the thread.
 
Typical hard right wing response, by putting words in other people's mouths. You lost the debate already.

When were you debating anything? You are just a bomb thrower....I do have fun though, batting you around like a cat with a mouse.
 
Laws that oppress Americans? not lately. But, if you want to go back in time to when white men rounded up Native Americans, stole their land, and placed them on reservations, we can go there if you wish, but it would be derailing the thread.

How about when FDR rounded up the Japanese Americans and put them in internment camps. You don't need to go back to the Native Americans.
 
No need, and no point. The govt will just rule in its own favor and we've come too far to correct all the wrong done in the name of the common good.
So then what are you doing? Are you just going to continue bitching about it in a political debate forum or what?
 
When were you debating anything? You are just a bomb thrower....I do have fun though, batting you around like a cat with a mouse.

I do believe your bats are in your upstairs department.

You lost the debate, now go tuck yer tail.
 
Laws that oppress Americans? not lately. But, if you want to go back in time to when white men rounded up Native Americans, stole their land, and placed them on reservations, we can go there if you wish, but it would be derailing the thread.

You do realize that every regulation in the regulatory today represents control, yes? What percentage of those people affected never aggressed upon someones person or property? I'm going to go with 99%. You?

Can you find something in the US today that is not regulated by the government?
 
I do believe your bats are in your upstairs department.

You lost the debate, now go tuck yer tail.

:lamo Nope....I lost nothing...When you decide to actually debate let me know....Right now we are just having fun....
 
How about when FDR rounded up the Japanese Americans and put them in internment camps. You don't need to go back to the Native Americans.

Good point. What about when the Bush administration rounded up Arab Americans who were denied due process.

What does any of this have to do with Clyde Bundy, the lawbreaker and moocher?
 
You do realize that every regulation in the regulatory today represents control, yes? What percentage of those people affected never aggressed upon someones person or property? I'm going to go with 99%. You?

Can you find something in the US today that is not regulated by the government?

Yes, pissing in the woods.
 
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