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Thread: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    pfft! The "tortoise argument" has already been debunked as little more than a rouse to allow authoritarian action by this administration.

    If the cattle are detrimental to the tortoise, then you shouldn't be able to pay a fee to continue....All this is, (analogy here) is protection money, paid to the government mob.
    That is not the issue. You shouldn't be able to skip paying leasing fees (on public or private land) and expect to continue to use it. Do you consider user fees to access public parks to be protection money paid to the gov't mob? What about paying fees to enter (or park at) the zoo? What this moron wants is to unilaterally decide who is the legitimate owner of the land and, if that entity is not to his liking, then he (alone?) may use it for free. The fact that I could buy gasoline for $.20/gallon, many years ago, does not mean that I am entitled to pay that price today.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    That is not the issue. You shouldn't be able to skip paying leasing fees (on public or private land) and expect to continue to use it. Do you consider user fees to access public parks to be protection money paid to the gov't mob? What about paying fees to enter (or park at) the zoo? What this moron wants is to unilaterally decide who is the legitimate owner of the land and, if that entity is not to his liking, then he (alone?) may use it for free. The fact that I could buy gasoline for $.20/gallon, many years ago, does not mean that I am entitled to pay that price today.
    No, of course not...And have said that Bundy should have paid his fees...But, If I am in that park, and have paid the fee to enter, and a park ranger comes up to me and says, "yeah, that fee you paid at the gate, is now changed now that you're in, and I want another $20 from you to stay".... Then yes, it is protection money, or similar type of crap.
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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    No, of course not...And have said that Bundy should have paid his fees...But, If I am in that park, and have paid the fee to enter, and a park ranger comes up to me and says, "yeah, that fee you paid at the gate, is now changed now that you're in, and I want another $20 from you to stay".... Then yes, it is protection money, or similar type of crap.
    The bolded distinction is very important. Bundy refuses to pay the fees, based on lunacy, yet demands continued use of the land. Do you have some evidence that Bundy had paid someone else for current use of that land?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    As I told Moot, I think you are conflating the timeline....militias didn't start showing up, to my knowledge until AFTER the armed incursion of an agency that 1. displayed armament far beyond what they typically should be brandishing, and 2. started trampling the constitution by doing such things as trying to "set up a free speech zone"....Are you kidding me?
    So the militia rented supersonic aircraft and flew to Bunkerville from Idaho, Colorado and other states, that's amazing. I didn't know militias had access to such modern vehicles.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ditto and I have known each other for years...I am confident he took it in the way it was intended....not to worry.

    Ditto, among others seem to be displaying a rather blind acceptance of government force, and only taking the word of the authoritarian side of things...

    If he has a problem with me, HE can address it, instead of you.
    I have a problem with people being rude, and I will address it, even if it displeases you mildly.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The bolded distinction is very important. Bundy refuses to pay the fees, based on lunacy, yet demands continued use of the land. Do you have some evidence that Bundy had paid someone else for current use of that land?
    The BLM doesnt have the authority, nor a writ to collect that debt at gun point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The BLM doesnt have the authority, nor a writ to collect that debt at gun point.
    What? Are you now quibbling over which federal law enforcement agency has authority to enforce that federal law?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    I don't know he is a "friend" of Bundy, or just some guy writing a song....Do you? I have agreed numerous times that Bundy's course of actions in this should have been to pay the fees, and fight it in the courts...He didn't, and a Judge ordered the cattle confiscated...The problem is, that you have a rancher who represented himself in these loosing court battles, and we've all seen now the level of ability to stage the battle in that regard...Bundy needs competent council, and continue in the courts...

    In the mean time there may or may not be recourse for him to stop the ceasing of his herd...But, all of that IN NO WAY justifies the governments over zealous show of force....

    When Utah ranchers told Nevada that they may have as many as 200 ranchers and supporters coming down to protest along side Bundy, they were told by the Clark County official, "I hope they have their funeral arrangements in order".... What the hell is that? But, so far Ditto, you seem to support that as long as it is from the government.
    If you were to have the job of evicting a deadbeat, and were told that 200 armed supporters were coming to help him, and that you'd better have your funeral arrangements made, would you:

    a. simply show up and ask him to pretty please leave, or
    b. show up with enough force to turn the possible slaughter into a stand off?

    Personally, I'd pick b.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    What? Are you now quibbling over which federal law enforcement agency has authority to enforce that federal law?
    The BLM isn't a law enforcement agency and Bundy didn't violate the criminal code.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Feds move in on Nevada rancher's herd over illegal grazing

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Reminds me of Shay's Rebellion...which was the inspiration for creating a strong federal government that could enforce the laws. History shows that the founding fathers would not have put up with Mr. Bundy and would have cut him down without hesitation.
    The Founding Fathers would not have charged him a grazing fee.

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