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Thread: Russia Claims American Mercenaries Are in Eastern Ukraine

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    Re: Russia Claims American Mercenaries Are in Eastern Ukraine

    When I want accurate information I always pick sensationalist headlines from state propaganda outlets citing the director of the largest conspiracy theory forum on the internet: The Center for Research on Globalization. Christ.

    Edit: For those who don't know CRG is your go to place for 9/11 truth theories, stories on US Weather Weapons, Zionist Globalism, the Vaccine Cover-up, and of course the Illuminati. But also much more!

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    Re: Russia Claims American Mercenaries Are in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    It's ludicrous on its face. This doesn't happen. Countries do not acquire contracts with security companies when they are in the midst of inter-state war, nor do companies dish them out. We wont send weapons, share intelligence, or dispatch spare parts to Ukraine but we're willing to allow an American company accept a (shockingly illegal) contract to organize a foreign legion of '150 mercenaries' in the face of a potential Russian invasion? Especially when they don't even provide those services! Which Russia should know because they've contracted with Greystone numerous times for police training and executive private security details. Why would a cash strapped Ukraine even bother to pay what would be an exorbitant fee to dispatch a few score hired foreign guns to eastern Ukraine when they are in the process of mobilizing corps sized formations? It's nonsense.
    Here's why

    "Those organizations (private security companies) will do what NATO cannot do openly. They can train people to be terrorists," Chossudovsky said, adding that in Syria private contractors were training al-Qaeda.
    And please don't just say it's ludicrous on the face. If you really know what you are talking about, please provide some sources to back your claim. IF you are telling the truth, I would like to believe you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Everyone from Washington to Brussels, from Greystone to Xe has flatly denied this claim. The only evidence is an errant Russian assertion that there are bands of 'American mercenaries' operating in Ukraine. They have a storied history of lying about this from their claims just a few weeks ago about mercenaries being disgorged by the hundreds into Kiev to their sensationalist claims about fighting American mercenaries in Georgia. They inevitably drop the claim because it's always nonsense conjured up for the purposes of the moment.
    Governments like about these types of things all the time, so just because Washington has denied the claims does not mean they are not true. Russia could also be lying, but at this point, it's hard for an objective observer to understand who is telling the truth.

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    Re: Russia Claims American Mercenaries Are in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    When I want accurate information I always pick sensationalist headlines from state propaganda outlets citing the director of the largest conspiracy theory forum on the internet: The Center for Research on Globalization. Christ.

    Edit: For those who don't know CRG is your go to place for 9/11 truth theories, stories on US Weather Weapons, Zionist Globalism, the Vaccine Cover-up, and of course the Illuminati. But also much more!
    Methinks thou doest protest too much
    Last edited by MildSteel; 04-09-14 at 12:16 PM.

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    Re: Russia Claims American Mercenaries Are in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Methinks thou doest protest too much
    So you aren't troubled in the slightest by your source?

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    Re: Russia Claims American Mercenaries Are in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    Here's why



    And please don't just say it's ludicrous on the face. If you really know what you are talking about, please provide some sources to back your claim. IF you are telling the truth, I would like to believe you.



    Governments like about these types of things all the time, so just because Washington has denied the claims does not mean they are not true. Russia could also be lying, but at this point, it's hard for an objective observer to understand who is telling the truth.
    Ah! So they are there training Ukrainian terrorists. Well I'm glad it's all cleared up. There are no sources to provide I was reciting a litany of logic. As for sources that they deny they have any personal there that is easy to locate.

    Security Firm Denies Involvement in Ukraine - Emerging Europe Real Time - WSJ

    If you aren't willing to abandon your earlier source and if that is where you are gleaning your information I'd hazard that you actually don't really want to believe me.

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    Re: Russia Claims American Mercenaries Are in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    If you aren't willing to abandon your earlier source and if that is where you are gleaning your information I'd hazard that you actually don't really want to believe me.
    At this point as far as I'm concerned it isn't a matter of not wanting to believe you as much as trying to understand why that although I have said Russia can be lying, you want me to believe that you really know the truth. One of these things is possible:

    1. You work for the government or know someone that works for the government that has access to sources of information that you cannot share and you are actually telling the truth.
    2. You are someone who is foolish enough to believe whatever propaganda that Washington manufactures.
    3. You are just doing this for the heck of it.
    4. You are representing someone who wants to hide the truth.

    What I find of particular interest is your words here:

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    The tack that this administration (begun in part by the last) with Russia could not be more wrong. Russia is not a partner or a potential partner, at least not as its government is currently constituted.
    That's of particular interest when seen juxtaposed against this

    Moscow does not see the revolution in Ukraine as an attempt to create a more democratic or law-based society. Instead, it sees the events in Kiev as an attempt to make Ukraine as anti-Russian as possible. The new government represents a minority of the Ukrainian population. It wants to suppress the Russian-speaking majority and violate their right to representation by holding unfair elections on May 25.

    Moreover, U.S. President Barack Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel deceived President Vladimir Putin when they pursuaded him to convince Yanukovych to refrain from using force to quell the Maidan, and then to sign the Feb. 21 agreement which they refused to uphold. Instead, they told Russia to accept the new reality in Ukraine. But why should Moscow accept that reality when it is directed against Russia, democracy and human rights?

    What did Russia do to become the focus of so much animosity? Is it because it prevented the West from bombing Syria? Because it persuaded Yanukovych not to sign the Association Agreement a treaty of little real importance to the EU? Those are trivial reasons for starting a new Cold War.

    It seems that the West simply does not like Putin. He is a huge obstacle who prevents them from achieving global hegemony. For this reason alone he must be broken. Nobody in Moscow has any doubt that what happened in Ukraine will be repeated in Moscow in two or three years. Without Putin, there will be few world leaders left who have the power or courage to stand up to Washington. When this happens, the entire world will have to quickly accept the new reality.

    Russia is not in Crimea to expand its territory but to oppose the immense power of West and its financial institutions in New York and London. Washington wants to characterize this as a conflict between Moscow and Kiev, thereby forcing Russia to negotiate with an illegitimate regime determined to destroy everything Russian in Ukraine.
    Victoria Nuland is the wife of the very prominent neocon, Robert Kagan. Could it be that what people like you and Victoria Nuland really want to do is overthrow Putin in Russia, using Ukraine as a stepping stone? I don't know for sure. Just saying.

    Russia Must Stop U.S. Expansion in Ukraine | Opinion | The Moscow Times

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    Re: Russia Claims American Mercenaries Are in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    At this point as far as I'm concerned it isn't a matter of not wanting to believe you as much as trying to understand why that although I have said Russia can be lying, you want me to believe that you really know the truth. One of these things is possible:

    1. You work for the government or know someone that works for the government that has access to sources of information that you cannot share and you are actually telling the truth.
    2. You are someone who is foolish enough to believe whatever propaganda that Washington manufactures.
    3. You are just doing this for the heck of it.
    4. You are representing someone who wants to hide the truth.

    What I find of particular interest is your words here:



    That's of particular interest when seen juxtaposed against this



    Victoria Nuland is the wife of the very prominent neocon, Robert Kagan. Could it be that what people like you and Victoria Nuland really want to do is overthrow Putin in Russia, using Ukraine as a stepping stone? I don't know for sure. Just saying.

    Russia Must Stop U.S. Expansion in Ukraine | Opinion | The Moscow Times
    You've been presented with the blanket denials from every possible actor involved as well as thoroughly explained reasoning for why it is utterly illogical. Your response was to present a propaganda outlet which cited a famous conspiracy theorist regarding 'terrorist training'. Something you have utterly failed to address, though considering how silly the source was I can understand why. You seem positively eager to jump at any conclusion or possibility that sustains this ridiculous Russian position.

    I'd love to see Putin overthrown and his fascist ilk dragged through the streets. Pretending that Ukraine is a stepping stone to that goal is, once again, ludicrous.

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    Re: Russia Claims American Mercenaries Are in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    You've been presented with the blanket denials from every possible actor involved as well as thoroughly explained reasoning for why it is utterly illogical. Your response was to present a propaganda outlet which cited a famous conspiracy theorist regarding 'terrorist training'. Something you have utterly failed to address, though considering how silly the source was I can understand why. You seem positively eager to jump at any conclusion or possibility that sustains this ridiculous Russian position.
    What makes you so suspicious is the fact that you put forward your claims as if they are fact. On the other hand I have clearly stated that Russia could be lying and that I don't know for sure that what is being put forward is fact. You say that you have provided blanket denials from every actor but you only presented one source. Over and above that, the perpetrators would of course deny such activity, even if it was true. You put forward one denial and then it appears that you would have us believe that such a denial is absolute truth that the claims are false.

    Over and above that despite that fact that I have said that I don't know for sure if the claims are true, you want to paint me as someone that is promoting a conspiracy theory. That would be typical of someone who is trying to obfuscate the truth. Again I don't know for sure what is happening, neither do I know who you are and why you are trying destroy any notion that this scenario is possible. Like I said, if you have got something please present it. The only thing that you have presented is a denial from a firm that would have every reason to deny this if it were true. It's ok to present such evidence, but present it in the spirit that it's possible that they may not be telling the truth instead of in the spirit that you actually know what is taking place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    I'd love to see Putin overthrown and his fascist ilk dragged through the streets. Pretending that Ukraine is a stepping stone to that goal is, once again, ludicrous.
    Well at least you admit you want Putin overthrown, and that in itself would be motivation enough for you to come here and present suspicious evidence as absolute truth.

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    Re: Russia Claims American Mercenaries Are in Eastern Ukraine

    It appears that Robert Kagan, the husband of Victoria "f*** the EU" Nuland, and one poster here are singing from the same hymn book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    The tack that this administration (begun in part by the last) with Russia could not be more wrong. Russia is not a partner or a potential partner, at least not as its government is currently constituted.
    Here's Rober Kagan

    A hollow 'reset' with Russia

    By Robert Kagan
    Tuesday, May 25, 2010

    It took months of hard negotiating, but finally the administration got Russia to agree to a resolution tightening sanctions on Iran. The United States had to drop tougher measures it wanted to impose, of course, to win approval. Nevertheless, senior Russian officials were making the kinds of strong statements about Iran's nuclear program that they had long refused to make. Iran "must cease enrichment," declared Russia's ambassador to the United Nations. One senior European official told the New York Times, "We consider this a very important decision by the Russians."

    Yes, it was quite a breakthrough -- by the administration of George W. Bush. In fact, this 2007 triumph came after another, similar breakthrough in 2006, when months of negotiations with Moscow had produced the first watered-down resolution. And both were followed in 2008 by yet another breakthrough, when the Bush administration got Moscow to agree to a third resolution, another marginal tightening of sanctions, after more negotiations and more diluting.

    Given that history, few accomplishments have been more oversold than the Obama administration's "success" in getting Russia to agree, for the fourth time in five years, to another vacuous U.N. Security Council resolution. It is being trumpeted as a triumph of the administration's "reset" of the U.S.-Russian relationship, the main point of which was to get the Russians on board regarding Iran. All we've heard in recent months is how the Russians finally want to work with us on Iran and genuinely see the Iranian bomb as a threat -- all because Obama has repaired relations with Russia that were allegedly destroyed by Bush.

    Obama officials must assume that no one will bother to check the record (as, so far, none of the journalists covering the story has). The fact is, the Russians have not said or done anything in the past few months that they didn't do or say during the Bush years. In fact, they sometimes used to say and do more. Here's Vladimir Putin in April 2005: "We categorically oppose any attempts by Iran to acquire nuclear weapons. . . . Our Iranian partners must renounce setting up the technology for the entire nuclear fuel cycle and should not obstruct placing their nuclear programs under complete international supervision." Here's one of Putin's top national security advisers, Igor S. Ivanov, in March 2007: "The clock must be stopped; Iran must freeze uranium enrichment." Indeed, the New York Times' Elaine Sciolino reported that month that Moscow threatened to "withhold nuclear fuel for Iran's nearly completed Bushehr power plant unless Iran suspends its uranium enrichment as demanded by the United Nations Security Council" -- which prompted the Times' editorial page to give the Bush administration "credit if it helped Moscow to see where its larger interests lie." Nine months later, of course, Russia delivered the fuel.

    It remains to be seen whether this latest breakthrough has greater meaning than the previous three or is just round four of Charlie Brown and the football. The latest draft resolution tightens sanctions in some areas around the margins, but the administration was forced to cave to some Russian and Chinese demands. The Post reported: "The Obama administration failed to win approval for key proposals it had sought, including restrictions on Iran's lucrative oil trade, a comprehensive ban on financial dealings with the Guard Corps and a U.S.-backed proposal to halt new investment in the Iranian energy sector." Far from the comprehensive arms embargo Washington wanted, the draft resolution does not even prohibit Moscow from completing the sale of its S-300 surface-to-air missile defense system to Tehran. A change to the Federal Register on Friday showed that the administration had lifted sanctions against four Russian entities involved in illicit weapons trade with Iran and Syria since 1999, suggesting last-minute deal sweeteners.

    What is bizarre is the administration's claim that Russian behavior is somehow the result of Obama's "reset" diplomacy. Russia has responded to the Obama administration in the same ways it did to the Bush administration before the "reset." Moscow has been playing this game for years. It has sold the same rug many times. The only thing that has changed is the price the United States has been willing to pay.

    As anyone who ever shopped for a rug knows, the more you pay for it, the more valuable it seems. The Obama administration has paid a lot. In exchange for Russian cooperation, President Obama has killed the Bush administration's planned missile defense installations in Poland and the Czech Republic. Obama has officially declared that Russia's continued illegal military occupation of Georgia is no "obstacle" to U.S.-Russian civilian nuclear cooperation. The recent deal between Russia and Ukraine granting Russia control of a Crimean naval base through 2042 was shrugged off by Obama officials, as have been Putin's suggestions for merging Russian and Ukrainian industries in a blatant bid to undermine Ukrainian sovereignty.

    So at least one effect of the administration's "reset" has been to produce a wave of insecurity throughout Eastern and Central Europe and the Baltics, where people are starting to fear they can no longer count on the United States to protect them from an expansive Russia. And for this the administration has gotten what? Yet another hollow U.N. Security Council resolution. Some observers suggest that Iran's leaders are quaking in their boots, confronted by this great unity of the international "community." More likely, they are laughing up their sleeves -- along with the men in Moscow.

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    Re: Russia Claims American Mercenaries Are in Eastern Ukraine

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    It appears that Robert Kagan, the husband of Victoria "f*** the EU" Nuland, and one poster here are singing from the same hymn book.



    Here's Rober Kagan
    I'm intimately familiar with Robert Kagan. You also can't spook me with the Neocon boogieman--I'm a neoconservative. Boom.

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