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Thread: Anti-Tech Protesters Target VC With Vulgar Flyer

  1. #191
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    Re: Anti-Tech Protesters Target VC With Vulgar Flyer

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    If I have a million bucks, I can invest it in mutual funds, I can buy baseball cards, I can go on trips, or I can buy investment property.

    If you see a social problem in San Francisco why do you feel justified in devaluing my property to solve that COMMUNITY problem? The landlord can no longer earn the return he counted on, the value of his investment diminishes because value is linked to returns.

    Why don't we just seize your car and sell it, then take the money and put it into a rental subsidy pool and give that money to low income renters? What's that, why should your car be seized to pay for that rental pool? I don't know, probably for the same reason that a landlord has to have his asset devalued.

    Again this shifts the burden of fixing a social problem onto only a few individuals and those who buy their product. Why should the new buyer pay for the problems of the whole community?
    In places with rent control landlords are not denied a profit, they are only denied the profit they might have gotten without the regulations. San Francisco has had rent control since at least the late 1970s, so no is going to be surprised by the system at this time. In some cases rent control can benefit a landlord because rent control may increase the rents one can get with a vacant unit. However, the point you make is legitimate and I am not opposed to a system that compensates landlords (perhaps with tax breaks) who provide below market rate housing. I believe federal Section 8 housing vouchers pay market rate, so that is another possible model for landlord compensation while providing affordable housing to those who need it.

    I don't see a same problem with requiring affordable units in large new projects because the developers benefit greatly from the tax payer provided infrastructure (transportation, water, sewer etc) but it is the condo owners who will pay local taxes. It does reduce developer profits, but not significantly. Large residential developments in San Francisco are extremely profitable.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 04-09-14 at 06:56 PM.

  2. #192
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    Re: Anti-Tech Protesters Target VC With Vulgar Flyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    I believe federal Section 8 housing vouchers pay market rate, so that is another possible model for landlord compensation while providing affordable housing to those who need it.
    Why though do you believe that society has an obligation to subsidize someone's rent so that they can live where they please? If I move from Hardscrabble, Wyoming to Beverly Hills, California, should the residents of Beverly Hills subsidize my rent because I can't afford to live in Beverly Hills?

    We all know that Beverly Hills and San Francisco are nicer places to live than Bum****, Iowa but wanting to live where you want doesn't seem to be a good enough reason to obligate other people to pay for a part of your rent.

  3. #193
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    Re: Anti-Tech Protesters Target VC With Vulgar Flyer

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Why though do you believe that society has an obligation to subsidize someone's rent so that they can live where they please? If I move from Hardscrabble, Wyoming to Beverly Hills, California, should the residents of Beverly Hills subsidize my rent because I can't afford to live in Beverly Hills?

    We all know that Beverly Hills and San Francisco are nicer places to live than Bum****, Iowa but wanting to live where you want doesn't seem to be a good enough reason to obligate other people to pay for a part of your rent.
    That's an interesting question that I wrestle with: do people have a right to live in an expensive place? I tend to think that there is no such right when it is a residential area, but it seems to me that cities should be accessible to people at a variety of income levels, although there are limits to what government can or should do to achieve that goal.

    I have long suggested that Oakland should be merged with San Francisco, which would instantly increase the affordable housing and commercial space supply.

    Unlike Beverly Hills (I assume), the people of San Francisco want an economically and culturally diverse city, the stated goal of the measures the city took that I described. There are significant environmental advantages to discouraging suburban sprawl and reducing commutes. Reducing commute times also improves the quality of life and increases family time and reduces stress, improving parenting. Keeping emergency personnel within a city helps with safety. A serious lack of low income housing within a city makes it more expensive to hire low wage workers, increasing the price of products.
    Last edited by Hard Truth; 04-09-14 at 09:05 PM.

  4. #194
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    Re: Anti-Tech Protesters Target VC With Vulgar Flyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why do leftists so frequently feel the need to talk like hillbillies? Is it a throwback thing?
    Is there anything you perceive as a negative that "leftists" DON'T do, Grant?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  5. #195
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    Re: Anti-Tech Protesters Target VC With Vulgar Flyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    That's an interesting question without definitive answers.

    Unlike Beverly Hills (I assume), the people of San Francisco want an economically and culturally diverse city, the stated goal of the measures the city took that I described. There are significant environmental advantages to discouraging suburban sprawl and reducing commutes. Reducing commute times also improves the quality of life and increases family time and reduces stress, improving parenting. Keeping emergency personnel within a city helps with safety. A serious lack of low income housing within a city makes it more expensive to hire low wage workers, increasing the price of products.
    San Francisco is noted as being a very liberal city. If they want to do this, then that's fine with me. If your answer to my question of "why should someone's rent be subsidized" is "the people want to create economic diversity" then that's good enough for me.

    I don't actually believe this is so because I see a lot of revealed preferences which show that people flee some kinds of cultural diversity and I don't see people stepping up and volunteering their own dollars to fix the problem instead of shifting the cost onto other people (rent control, developers building rent subsidized housing).

    As for the reasons you trot out, they mostly benefit the commuters, (quality of life, more family time, reduced stress, improved parenting) not the residents. I'm still left wondering why the city residents should feel an obligation to subsidize other people's rent so that they can live in a nice location. I'd rather see that low income housing be sold for market value because that would improve the quality of the city. Then if there are problems filling city worker jobs, keep raising the pay until people from afar are willing to take on the commute. What actually benefit would I get from having a garbage man live in the city rather than commute from a distance? Same with a city planner or bureaucrat or teacher.

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    Re: Anti-Tech Protesters Target VC With Vulgar Flyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Is there anything you perceive as a negative that "leftists" DON'T do, Grant?
    Your not the first leftist to talk like a hillbilly. Why do you find the need to do that?

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    Re: Anti-Tech Protesters Target VC With Vulgar Flyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Closer families, yes...but the 'greater freedoms' is quite debatable, particularly if you're a racial minority. I mean, yeah, I can understand why you probably said that - no HOA rules, we can go shoot our guns if we want, have a beer and take a whiz in our front yard if we want, drive down the road like a bat out of hell, enjoy a sunrise or sunset in peace from your front porch, and the only noise you hear is from the doves or the crickets...yeah, been there, done that. There's things I do so greatly miss about life in the MS Delta.

    But there's more to freedom than that. In urban areas there's far more opportunities for work and education, and significantly better health care. I mean, life out in the boonies is nice, it's fine...but most parents also want their kids to have better opportunities, and for them to live in safer places.

    And this is why, if you'll look up the stats, rural states generally have lower educational attainment rates, lower percentages of health insurance coverage, higher poverty rates, higher divorce rates, higher teenage pregnancy rates, higher homicide rates.

    Rural states are generally conservative red states...but these statistics are NOT because of conservative governance - it's just the other way around. Rural (red) states have conservative governance because they are rural states...and people who grow up in rural areas are generally more conservative (I was once strongly conservative) - and that's true not just in America, but all over the world.
    The diversity of the different states is what gave America its strength. Now, as the feds gain more control, that is changing.

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    Re: Anti-Tech Protesters Target VC With Vulgar Flyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    It is considered displacement when it is a sudden process that changes the character of neighborhoods and creates widespread hardship.
    With prosperity the character of the neighborhood tends to go up and crime tends to go down. Parks improve as do schools and the general infrastructure. If people don't want to be 'displaced' they should work towards owning their own home as well as improving their own situation so this problem is less likely to arise,

  9. #199
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    Re: Anti-Tech Protesters Target VC With Vulgar Flyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Your not the first leftist to talk like a hillbilly. Why do you find the need to do that?
    You're*
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  10. #200
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    Re: Anti-Tech Protesters Target VC With Vulgar Flyer

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    With prosperity the character of the neighborhood tends to go up and crime tends to go down. Parks improve as do schools and the general infrastructure. If people don't want to be 'displaced' they should work towards owning their own home as well as improving their own situation so this problem is less likely to arise,
    That's easy for people to say when the don't know others' actual situation, but its not so easy for people who work multiple jobs, older people and people with obligations such as children or elder care.

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