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Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

BTW - as of yesterday's close - the DOW was down for 2014.

INDU Quote - Dow Jones Industrial Average Index - Bloomberg


73,000 jobs lost in April, 0.1% GDP rise, 0.1% rise in retail sales in April...and now the DOW (and the Russell 2000 - a small cap index) is down for the calender year.

Either the weather is to blame or more QE anyone?
 
73,000 jobs lost in April

You can say that as many times as you want, but it will never be true. Why does everyone else say that 288K were added? Because they understand the difference between the CPS and the CES. I've been doing this work for fifteen years. You don't know what yer talking about.

This is the similar to the nonsense trumpeted all over right-wing media that "92 million Americans can't find a job!" No, 92 million Americans aren't looking for work; most of them are retired or in school.

>>0.1% GDP rise

Slow quarter. Consensus forecast for 2014 is 2.5-3%

>>0.1% rise in retail sales in April

Three-month moving average of 0.6%, a 7.5% annual increase.

>>now the DOW (and the Russell 2000 - a small cap index) is down for the calender year.

Yeah, the Dow average is off about 1%, all of it in the last two sessions. Are you a day trader? Here's the last six months:

Dow_average.jpg


More to the point, what the hell do short-term fluctuations in the stock market have to do with the health of the economy?

>>Either the weather is to blame or more QE anyone?

There is nothing to be blamed for.
 
I don't live in Houston, I live 30 miles North of Houston, maybe you ought to get the true facts before spouting rhetoric.

Won't have you in the city, eh?

I was going by the location listed in yer profile. The exact location of yer residence is a rather obscure fact. How was I being rhetorical?
 
Won't have you in the city, eh?

I was going by the location listed in yer profile. The exact location of yer residence is a rather obscure fact. How was I being rhetorical?

I live in the Houston area, but not Harris County. If I put the exact city no one would know where it is. Further the unions in Houston are just as corrupt as they are in other parts of the country. You don't seem to understand unions at all and buy what you are told and believe what you want to believe. Why is that? Any idea why union management has so many 6 figure managers? What is it about unions that create your support and yet you are in the minority?
 
You can say that as many times as you want, but it will never be true. Why does everyone else say that 288K were added? Because they understand the difference between the CPS and the CES. I've been doing this work for fifteen years. You don't know what yer talking about.

This is the similar to the nonsense trumpeted all over right-wing media that "92 million Americans can't find a job!" No, 92 million Americans aren't looking for work; most of them are retired or in school.

>>0.1% GDP rise

Slow quarter. Consensus forecast for 2014 is 2.5-3%

>>0.1% rise in retail sales in April

Three-month moving average of 0.6%, a 7.5% annual increase.

>>now the DOW (and the Russell 2000 - a small cap index) is down for the calender year.

Yeah, the Dow average is off about 1%, all of it in the last two sessions. Are you a day trader? Here's the last six months:

Dow_average.jpg


More to the point, what the hell do short-term fluctuations in the stock market have to do with the health of the economy?

>>Either the weather is to blame or more QE anyone?

There is nothing to be blamed for.

Really struck a nerve their huh?

The reason most people use the CPS number is probably because they don't know any better. I guarantee you the average American has no idea there is a CPS and a CES number. They just read the headline and sop it up.
Personally, I don't much care what they think...I will use the (IMO) more accurate number.
Obviously, you won't think it more accurate...you are obviously bias.

As for the number...I will say it again.

Go to line four of the link. Look at the end of the line...what does it say? It says - ACCORDING TO THE BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS - that there were 73,000 less Americans employed in April then there were in March.

Employment Situation Summary Table A. Household data, seasonally adjusted


As for the rest of your post...again, you are apparently extremely bias and obviously will try and spin the numbers.

I simply posted accurate numbers:

DOW and the Russell 2000 are both down for the year, 1'st quarter GDP up only 0.1%, retail sales were up only 0.1% in April (and remove car sales and gas and they were actually down) AND there were 73,000 less Americans working in April then in March.

Those are facts.


Good day.
 
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Really struck a nerve their huh?

The reason most people use the CPS number is probably because they don't know any better. I guarantee you the average American has no idea there is a CPS and a CES number. They just read the headline and sop it up.
Personally, I don't much care what they think...I will use the (IMO) more accurate number.
Obviously, you won't think it more accurate...you are obviously bias.
Why do you think a sample size of 60,000 households could possibly be more accurate than a sample of 144,000 businesses (554,000 worksites)?
How does that math work?

the CPS is broader and more inclusive, and the two measure different things, but as far as accuracy? CES is more accurate.
 
Why do you think a sample size of 60,000 households could possibly be more accurate than a sample of 144,000 businesses (554,000 worksites)?
How does that math work?

the CPS is broader and more inclusive, and the two measure different things, but as far as accuracy? CES is more accurate.

The reason I prefer one over the other is the CES is (IMO) estimated using more assumptions, models and other creative computations that the BLS seems to love so much - then the other one.

You don't agree - I DON'T CARE.

Either post links to unbiased facts that factually proves me wrong or you will be ignored.

I have no time or desire to interact with you for reasons I have explained several times to you.
 
the dems laid into Bush even when the economy wasn't horrifyingly awful. now, they ended up being right; all of the stupid wall street gambling really did destroy the economy, but they didn't really know that was going to happen.

The economy died because of Socialist policies. Carter started CRA and then Clinton went overboard, forcing banks to make loans to people who could not pay them back.

Militant ACORN had Obama as a helper. He was once proud and vocal. He was ACORN's attorney. Another Obama failure.

Republicans, including McCain and Bush tried to get some sanity into the system, but Demokrats went rabid.

Once again... it is socialist schemes that caused misery.

Typical of Libs and as Obama says on the vid... "the original idea was a good one..."
NO IT WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA. IT WAS DUMB. IT TANKED THE ECONOMY YOU IDIOT. IT FAILED SPECTACULARLY... AND IT CAUSED MISERY TO MILLIONS.

But it does explain why Obama clings bitterly to his Marxism. He thinks the idea is good. The intentions are good. He ignores the fact socialism fails everywhere it is tried... it's just a matter of time.

Here is Cuomo... Then HUD Secretary telling us why they forced banks to give loans, and admits some loans will not be paid back... as he says... it is "affirmative action" and a "greater risk", and will be "a higher rate of default". They simply did not expect their idiocy to tank the economy. It did.

 
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The economy died because of Socialist policies. Carter started CRA and then Clinton went overboard, forcing banks to make loans to people who could not pay them back.

Militant ACORN had Obama as a helper. He was once proud and vocal. He was ACORN's attorney. Another Obama failure.

Republicans, including McCain and Bush tried to get some sanity into the system, but Demokrats went rabid.

Once again... it is socialist schemes that caused misery.

Typical of Libs and as Obama says on the vid... "the original idea was a good one..."
NO IT WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA. IT WAS DUMB. IT TANKED THE ECONOMY YOU IDIOT. IT FAILED SPECTACULARLY... AND IT CAUSED MISERY TO MILLIONS.

But it does explain why Obama clings bitterly to his Marxism. He thinks the idea is good. The intentions are good. He ignores the fact socialism fails everywhere it is tried... it's just a matter of time.

Here is Cuomo... Then HUD Secretary telling us why they forced banks to give loans, and admits some loans will not be paid back... as he says... it is "affirmative action" and a "greater risk", and will be "a higher rate of default". They simply did not expect their idiocy to tank the economy. It did.



Exactly, and when it failed instead of saying that it was the reason they blamed the banks they forced to make the loans and started to put the very same things in place to do it all over again. As a result you have Obama last week saying that they want to "loosen lending standards" to the poor to stimulate the banks making loans.

These people are dangerously stupid, and the establishment repub's that go along with it like lemmings have to go.
 

Exactly, and when it failed instead of saying that it was the reason they blamed the banks they forced to make the loans and started to put the very same things in place to do it all over again. As a result you have Obama last week saying that they want to "loosen lending standards" to the poor to stimulate the banks making loans.

These people are dangerously stupid, and the establishment repub's that go along with it like lemmings have to go.

Ignorance has massive costs, and folks like Helix, are a large part of the problem. I would say folks like Helix ARE the problem, especially if they vote. Either Helix is ignorant of the truth, or choses to ignore it.

Either way... big, big problem.
 
Ignorance has massive costs, and folks like Helix, are a large part of the problem. I would say folks like Helix ARE the problem, especially if they vote. Either Helix is ignorant of the truth, or choses to ignore it.

Either way... big, big problem.

i don't care enough about hyperpartisan nonsense to engage you in a discussion concerning it. have fun, and see you in the June thread.
 
monthly jobs report. rage or rejoice.
lulz

If Obama's anything like our own leaders this side of the pond, he's taking credit for the sudden stability. Not that international capitalism is a cyclical phenomenon. No, it's their economic genius at work.

Pricks.
 
lulz

If Obama's anything like our own leaders this side of the pond, he's taking credit for the sudden stability. Not that international capitalism is a cyclical phenomenon. No, it's their economic genius at work.

Pricks.

Oh, it's even worse. If his policies fail it's because repub's stood in the way of being able to enact them as he wanted to. And everything bad that happens is "news to him"... Hell, I wonder if he gets briefed at all.
 
lulz

If Obama's anything like our own leaders this side of the pond, he's taking credit for the sudden stability. Not that international capitalism is a cyclical phenomenon. No, it's their economic genius at work.

Pricks.

our monochromatic, "us vs them" duopoly keeps producing results which are wildly substandard.
 
Oh, it's even worse. If his policies fail it's because repub's stood in the way of being able to enact them as he wanted to. And everything bad that happens is "news to him"... Hell, I wonder if he gets briefed at all.
Yep. Just another Billy Bull****ter.
 
i don't care enough about hyperpartisan nonsense to engage you in a discussion concerning it. have fun, and see you in the June thread.

I realize it is difficult for some to face the truth. I was once a Lib too, and learning your world view is so very wrong isn't fun. Being held up as an example of ignorance even less so.

But, by ignoring blaring facts about what and who brought down the economy isn't beneficial to society. Learning the long proven truths should be the job of every responsible citizen, don't you think?

Hyper-partisanship is exhibited by those who fail to recognize root causes & cures and bitterly cling to failure and deceits.

The truth isn't hyper-partisan. It's the truth. A wonderful non-partisan gift that best serves society. You only need an open mind to accept it, even if it violently clashes with your current beliefs. I did just that, being a former Lib... and it caused me to abandon an ideology of lies and deceits.

The truth is fundamental to learning the root cause of the failure of our economy (or anything). Carter, Clinton, Cuomo, Reno and Obama & ACORN being six key elements to the destruction.
 
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our monochromatic, "us vs them" duopoly keeps producing results which are wildly substandard.

No. Substandard results can be traced back to Socialist legislation.

Look anywhere there is failure in the world and it is due to Socialism.

PIIGS in Europe, our housing market debacle, the fall of the Iron Curtain... The Pilgrims, The ancient Persians... the history is long and clear. One simply has to stop lying to oneself, or escape the shackles of ignorance and become a well-rounded, informed citizen.

Socialist legislation is the cause of almost all our evils. Sounds nice, but it farks society every time. It's merely a matter of time.

The Carter, Clinton, Cuomo, Obama & ACORN housing abortion took less than 30-years, and it was Clinton, Cuomo, Obama & ACORN that put booster rockets on the failure. Of course, ignorants and bitter clingers... hyper-partisans fail to recognize the obvious... and that only adds to our problems.
 
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Exactly, and when it failed instead of saying that it was the reason they blamed the banks they forced to make the loans and started to put the very same things in place to do it all over again. As a result you have Obama last week saying that they want to "loosen lending standards" to the poor to stimulate the banks making loans.

These people are dangerously stupid, and the establishment repub's that go along with it like lemmings have to go.

I think that's is a bit exaggerated, to say the least. I'll give you credit for not going into a rant about socialism. I've found to be well above that sort of nonsense.


Here's my view (from Communist Central):

The CRA simply outlawed redlining. It's very important legislation that continues to serve the national interest, and it cannot reasonably be associated with the collapse of the housing market because it did not play a significant role in the bad loans.

It specifically cautioned against high-risk loans. Have you guys read the law, or are you at least generally familiar with its elements? It's not "socialism," it's the very heart of the American Way, enacted in furtherance of the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment: to see that women and minorities are not discriminated against. It should not be distorted in an effort to gain political advantage.


Most sub-prime loans (about 75%) were issued by institutions that were not at all or only partially regulated by the CRA. And the most irresponsible ones, with rates as much as twice as high as regulated banks and thrifts, came from independent mortgage companies.

Just the idea that a lending crisis created from 2004 to 2007 was caused by a 1977 law is silly. But it’s even more ridiculous when you consider that most subprime loans were made by firms that aren’t subject to the CRA.

Finally, keep in mind that the Bush administration has been weakening CRA enforcement and the law’s reach since the day it took office. The CRA was at its strongest in the 1990s, under the Clinton administration,a period when subprime loans performed quite well. It was only after the Bush administration cut back on CRA enforcement that problems arose,a timing issue which should stop those blaming the law dead in their tracks. The Federal Reserve, too, did nothing but encourage the wild west of lending in recent years. It wasn’t until the middle of 2007 that the Fed decided it was time to crack down on abusive practices in the subprime lending market. Oops.

Better targets for blame in government circles might be the 2000 law which ensured that credit default swaps would remain unregulated, the SEC’s puzzling 2004 decision to allow the largest brokerage firms to borrow upwards of 30 times their capital and that same agency’s failure to oversee those brokerage firms in subsequent years as many gorged on subprime debt. — Community Reinvestment Act had nothing to do with subprime crisis

Here's Fed chair Yellen at a conference in 2008:

There has been a tendency to conflate the current problems in the subprime market with CRA-motivated lending, or with lending to low-income families in general. I believe it is very important to make a distinction between the two. Most of the loans made by depository institutions examined under the CRA have not been higher-priced loans, and studies have shown that the CRA has increased the volume of responsible lending to low- and moderate-income households.​

And here's a former Clinton Treasury official at a congressional hearing:

In fact, subprime lending exploded in the late 1990's, reaching over $600 billion and 20 percent of all originations by 2005. More than half of subprime loans were made by independent mortgage companies, another 30 percent by affiliates of banks or thrifts, and the remaining 20 percent were made by banks and thrifts themselves.

Although reasonable people can disagree about how to interpret the available evidence, my own judgment is that the worst and most widespread abuses have occurred in the institutions with the least Federal oversight.​

I will admit that this is a complex issue and there is certainly room for disagreement. Now that you've suffered through my perspective, you might be encouraged to find support for yer view in this article: Here's How The Community Reinvestment Act Led To The Housing Bubble's Lax Lending.

The sentence I'd pick out of it is: "It isn’t losses from CRA loans that drove the crisis (although they are disproportionately responsible for losses at some banks). Instead, the CRA required lax lending standards that spread to the rest of the mortgage market. That fueled the mortgage boom and bust."

"Fueled," as in "contributed to," not "caused," or even "drove." (There are errors in that piece that get by a spellchecker; makes ya wonder if you should lend it much credibility. I say that as a loyal member of the Federated Copyeditors Union Local 743. ;) )

You can join me in blaming Clinton, Bush, Greenspan, and those in Congress who voted to gut the mortgage lending regulations, but I'd say yer barking up the wrong tree in laying the blame on the CRA. Finally, I would note that Dodd-Frank was passed in 2010, long after the problems in the housing market developed.

I was once a Lib too

What happened? Do the doctors give you any hope for a recovery?
 
Really struck a nerve their huh?

Not "really," and actually not at all.

>>The reason most people use the CPS number is probably because they don't know any better.

An ironic statement, given that YOU are using the CPS number

>>I guarantee you the average American has no idea there is a CPS and a CES number.

Yes, and even fewer of them are confused about which is which.

>>They just read the headline and sop it up.

Where did you read we lost 73K jobs in April? I know right-wing sites love to quote from that commie rag, the NYT, when it serves their purposes. Perhaps you came across a reference to It’s a Mistake to Pretend This Jobs Report Tells a Consistent Story. As it happens, I agree with the author's observation that:

The best approach is to take all the evidence — both the household and business survey, as well as multiple months of data — and use it all to tell the most sensible story we can, based on the evidence.​

I've made the same point myself many times. But I'd say it's important to note the article's conclusion:

The labor market appears to be gaining strength. But there are enough conflicting signals that we will need more months of data before we can be sure.​

All I did was cite the number that nearly everyone uses from the monthly report: the CES figure. Now that I've calmed from the rage you sent me into by citing the April CPS figure, let me ask you a question: Were you excited to see that we added 476K jobs in March? Thrilled by the addition of 958K in November? Geez, ya musta run out and put an Obama sticker on yer bumper.

>>you are obviously bias.

Biased. Well, if I am, then so is just about everyone else. I admire yer willingness to stand alone.

>>It says - ACCORDING TO THE BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS - that there were 73,000 less Americans employed in April then there were in March.there were 73,000 less Americans employed in April then there were in March

"Fewer," not less. People are discrete units.

As I noted earlier, that's one of the things BLS said. Did you click on the link I put up to the CES in #1140? Did you notice that BLS publishes CES data?

Fwiw, you don't need to provide links to CPS results for me and help me find the number yer citing. I have the reports on my work computer. I read the reports every month the day they come out. It's been part of my job for the past fifteen years.

>>you are apparently extremely bias and obviously will try and spin the numbers. I simply posted accurate numbers.

I never said they were inaccurate. They are, however, misleading in this context. It's obvious the economy added jobs in April. It's of course impossible to be sure exactly how many. One-month sales figures offer little guidance for judging trends. The stock market is a very poor indicator of where the economy is headed. And as I noted, the Dow average was up for the year at the close on Tuesday.
 
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Mmi I address what you posted when I get off the road in a couple of days.
 
Ouch! Looks like I overwrote one my posts. Luckily it was a snippet and not one of my great American novels. Here is is again, for prosperity's sake:

I encourage you guys to read every word of this very brief note, so I won't quote from it: It Wasn't Fannie, Freddie, or the CRA.
 
No. Substandard results can be traced back to Socialist legislation.

Look anywhere there is failure in the world and it is due to Socialism.

PIIGS in Europe, our housing market debacle, the fall of the Iron Curtain... The Pilgrims, The ancient Persians... the history is long and clear. One simply has to stop lying to oneself, or escape the shackles of ignorance and become a well-rounded, informed citizen.

Socialist legislation is the cause of almost all our evils. Sounds nice, but it farks society every time. It's merely a matter of time.

The Carter, Clinton, Cuomo, Obama & ACORN housing abortion took less than 30-years, and it was Clinton, Cuomo, Obama & ACORN that put booster rockets on the failure. Of course, ignorants and bitter clingers... hyper-partisans fail to recognize the obvious... and that only adds to our problems.

zimmer,

i understand that you're a passionate Republican. i'm a left leaning independent who doesn't much GAF. when you get into political discussions, you mostly post cartoonish hyperpartisan bumpersticker slogans. given this, i'm just not interested in having a political discussion with you unless you're willing to stop doing that and just talk.

i will talk with you about anything else, though. i don't dislike you at all; i just really dislike the inflammatory hyperpartisan stuff. i spent much of the 2000s on a couple right wing partisan purity boards, and i just got burned out on it.
 
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