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Thread: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It's not?
    Well if you consider Welfare Marxism, than almost ALL of the conservative political candidates are for Marxism then because the majority don't want to get rid of all welfare. And no, I don't consider welfare Marxism.

    So have fun supporting your next Marxist candidate

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    here it is;

    Ok, good, I have you looking at the section...Now, explain to me exactly what you think the founders in the late 1700s understood "general welfare" to mean?

    "James Madison stated that the “general welfare” clause was not intended to give Congress an open hand “to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare.” If by the “general welfare,” the Founding Fathers had meant any and all social, economic, or educational programs Congress wanted to create, there would have been no reason to list specific powers of Congress such as establishing courts and maintaining the armed forces. Those powers would simply have been included in one all-encompassing phrase, to “promote the general welfare.”

    general welfare

    What you are arguing daniel is that the founders were somehow socialist in nature, and in documentation. That they wanted this unattainable socialist construct where you take from me, to give to others...That is profoundly false, and a demonstrable twisting of the intent, if not the actual words of the Constitution, and the Federalist papers...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Ok, good, I have you looking at the section...Now, explain to me exactly what you think the founders in the late 1700s understood "general welfare" to mean?

    "James Madison stated that the “general welfare” clause was not intended to give Congress an open hand “to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare.” If by the “general welfare,” the Founding Fathers had meant any and all social, economic, or educational programs Congress wanted to create, there would have been no reason to list specific powers of Congress such as establishing courts and maintaining the armed forces. Those powers would simply have been included in one all-encompassing phrase, to “promote the general welfare.”

    general welfare

    What you are arguing daniel is that the founders were somehow socialist in nature, and in documentation. That they wanted this unattainable socialist construct where you take from me, to give to others...That is profoundly false, and a demonstrable twisting of the intent, if not the actual words of the Constitution, and the Federalist papers...
    And you don't have to go very far to find proof of your statement, just the small central govt. and part time legislature. If the Govt. was created as Daniel believes the Founders would have created a massive central govt. and full time legislature to administer that socialist govt

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Well if you consider Welfare Marxism, than almost ALL of the conservative political candidates are for Marxism then because the majority don't want to get rid of all welfare. And no, I don't consider welfare Marxism.

    So have fun supporting your next Marxist candidate
    Wow, hang on to your socks there TNE...You're not totally wrong here....I'll explain...We have in place today a certain level of creeping Marxism that has taken progressive socialists in this country a century to put in place...And a hint for you, these progressives were in the Republican party, as well as the Democrat party...In fact the last time that progressives tried to poison the wonderful experiment called America was during FDR's reign, and before that during Wilson's reign...In both cases progressives showed too much of their true face, and were soundly rejected for decades...Now, they rear their ugly heads again...I don't know what the outcome of the current push will be the history is still being written, but I can only hope that this country wakes the hell up before this generation fully embraces the **** that comes with unabashed authoritarian socialism, and gets back to the rugged individualism we are founded on.
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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    And you don't have to go very far to find proof of your statement, just the small central govt. and part time legislature. If the Govt. was created as Daniel believes the Founders would have created a massive central govt. and full time legislature to administer that socialist govt
    True...I can't imagine a people that fought so hard to free themselves from the very type of authoritarian over arching control as this nations founding peoples did in the 1700s would then sit down to construct the very same system they were fleeing...It makes no sense...
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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Wow, hang on to your socks there TNE...You're not totally wrong here....I'll explain...We have in place today a certain level of creeping Marxism that has taken progressive socialists in this country a century to put in place...And a hint for you, these progressives were in the Republican party, as well as the Democrat party...In fact the last time that progressives tried to poison the wonderful experiment called America was during FDR's reign, and before that during Wilson's reign...In both cases progressives showed too much of their true face, and were soundly rejected for decades...Now, they rear their ugly heads again...I don't know what the outcome of the current push will be the history is still being written, but I can only hope that this country wakes the hell up before this generation fully embraces the **** that comes with unabashed authoritarian socialism, and gets back to the rugged individualism we are founded on.
    A country can be judged best on how it treats its poor. I don't have a problem with the idea of government welfare. I have a problem with how it has been implemented and its currently run. It is in need of DESPERATE reform and accountability. But the fact it exists is not Marxism to me, it's humanity.

    Welfare was not designed to be some super secret plot to bring down America. Just because people believe that the less fortunate should have a safety net does not make them a Marxist by any stretch of the imagination. Again, I'm not saying welfare doesn't need reform, it does.

    Even Romney who most of the right voted for didn't believe in getting rid of all welfare and I am willing to bet ANY right-wing candidate isn't going to either.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I asked you a question and you ignored it, where does the money come from to pay unemployment benefits and what effect does that have on the economy? Further why hasn't two years of unemployment insurance generated the theory based results?
    I think intuitively he knows.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by newpublius View Post
    I think intuitively he knows.
    You may be right but sometimes socialism and liberalism are so entrenched into the minds of far too many that they ignore history and actual results.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    A glaring question would be how would you reform it I guess.? But allow me to address some of your post seperately...


    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    A country can be judged best on how it treats its poor.
    Yes, and I think that our charity is unmatched in the world...

    I don't have a problem with the idea of government welfare.
    I do as it is constructed today..

    I have a problem with how it has been implemented and its currently run.
    On this we agree.

    It is in need of DESPERATE reform and accountability.
    Again how would you do it?

    But the fact it exists is not Marxism to me, it's humanity.
    Making sure that able bodied people become dependent on government services, then using it to tie people to a political party through their vote is bordering on evil...

    Welfare was not designed to be some super secret plot to bring down America.
    You're right...It's right there in the open...Take a look around and open your eyes...Hell, even in these boards the brazen audacity of self described 'socialists' and 'communists' is right there in the open...

    Just because people believe that the less fortunate should have a safety net does not make them a Marxist by any stretch of the imagination.
    Not saying that...But there is a proper role of the government, and there is a proper role of charities like the church system....

    Again, I'm not saying welfare doesn't need reform, it does.
    Can't wait to read how....But for now I have to do something profoundly un socialist....Go to work.... C-ya after a while....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Yes, and I think that our charity is unmatched in the world...
    Because of how we treat our poor with welfare especially.

    I do as it is constructed today..
    AGain, I was talking about the idea of welfare, not how it was run today.

    Again how would you do it?
    It needs better management and most of all it needs accountability by both sides. It needs limitations in time and it needs to take a look at "why" they are on welfare. If they need retraining, it is cheaper to do that retraining than to keep them on welfare for generations. Most of all, there should be a point that consequences are brought upon the person if they knowingly, willingly, aren't trying to better themselves if provided retraining opportunities. Tying into that is unemployment, we need to find out why and adapt. I am a bing conservationalist, but I am also a realist. I don't think oil and gas is the devil and until a viable alternative arises through the market we need to embrace drilling but hold those accountable for shady practices in keeping safety. Again, that isn't a be all in all solution, I am of course limiting several factors due to it would take hundreds of pages to exhaustively go through the plan. I hope you get the gist of it though and it isn't to keep people on welfare for generations.

    Making sure that able bodied people become dependent on government services, then using it to tie people to a political party through their vote is bordering on evil...
    That isn't welfare and that's not what I am suggesting.

    You're right...It's right there in the open...Take a look around and open your eyes...Hell, even in these boards the brazen audacity of self described 'socialists' and 'communists' is right there in the open...
    It was not designed that way. Just because someone twists and warps it, doesn't mean that is what its purpose was. When the atom was split, Einstein didn't do it for world domination or for weapons. However, it was misused from the original design.

    Not saying that...But there is a proper role of the government, and there is a proper role of charities like the church system....
    That's fine an dandy for a small population, but not for a large one. The church system is not able to handle the load. Add in the fact people are not religious today like they were hundreds of years ago. You are holding on to an archaic system. Much like the horse and buggy worked for the population in the past, the majority it would not work for now.

    Can't wait to read how....But for now I have to do something profoundly un socialist....Go to work.... C-ya after a while....
    Laters and have a good day!

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