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Thread: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Define "Common warfare "
    wars on abstractions such as crime, drugs, poverty, and terror.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Daniel,

    To start out, I find it mind boggling that you have the concepts on what our government is supposed to do, and what they are not ordered to do through our constitution. An 8th grader through a rudimentary civics course in middle school knows that what you are laying out is a total, and complete revision of the constitution of this country. And regardless of what grade you are now in, either middle, or High School, if I were your parent, there would be a serious conversation with your schools principle as to just what is being taught in your school to have you so far off in understanding the constitution.

    First, let's back up a little and go to the part which you said:

    Why do you believe it matters...
    I only included this part of your post because the rest is essentially you just claiming that I am committing a logical fallacy, which beside not being correct, calls into question your understanding of what a logical fallacy is. But, it matters because living at home, with mom and dad, having them provide you a roof over your head, pay for your food, pay the utilities, leaves you with NO understanding what it takes to run a household.

    Now, let's take a look at the convoluted understanding you have of the constitution....You said:

    Because our Founding Fathers did not enumerate a warfare-State, but merely, a welfare-State.
    and this

    Providing for the general welfare implies a welfare State, not a warfare State.
    and this

    Yes, everyone should understand that "promote the general welfare" implies promoting a welfare-State not a warfare-State.
    and this

    We are Only to promote the general welfare; not, the common defense.
    etc. etc.....

    Let me begin by posting the Opening words of our constitution:

    Quote Originally Posted by The United States of America Constitution
    We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
    There are 6 things laid out here that our government is tasked to do to secure "the blessings of Liberty, and out Prosperity"....

    1. The government is tasked to form a "more Perfect Union" - Now, what do they mean by that? Without going into a long dissertation on this, it is simple, the Federal government is supposed to oversee a system that doesn't have each state working against each other. So therefore, we have common currency, common trade, and freedom of movement between states, which promotes tourism, among other things...

    2. "Establish Justice" - We have that in Article III establishing a court system.

    3. "Insure the Domestic Tranquility" - I believe they were talking about not having a government working against the people, or subjecting them to authoritarian style governance.

    4. "Provide for the common defense" - This is covered in the enumerated powers, we will cover that shortly.

    5. "Promote the general welfare" - This was to be done through the enumerated powers as well...When the founders used phrases like 'promote the general welfare, they never intended it to be receiving the monthly stipend check for assistance, or having the EBT card replenished on the 1st of the month for food allotment. No, they specifically laid out what they meant by promoting the general welfare, and what they were supposed to over see in order to do that:

    Quote Originally Posted by The United States of America Constitution
    Section. 8.

    The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

    To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

    To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

    To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

    To establish Post Offices and post Roads;

    To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

    To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

    To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offences against the Law of Nations;

    To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

    To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

    To provide and maintain a Navy;

    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--And

    To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

    Transcript of the Constitution of the United States - Official Text
    And

    6. "Secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" - In order to secure these blessings, we remain a free people, not under the thumb of big government, that is after all what the founders were escaping.

    In short Daniel, like I said to open, your understanding of our founding document is so far opposed to the expressed intent of the document as to not at all be what it is...
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Daniel,

    To start out, I find it mind boggling that you have the concepts on what our government is supposed to do, and what they are not ordered to do through our constitution. An 8th grader through a rudimentary civics course in middle school knows that what you are laying out is a total, and complete revision of the constitution of this country. And regardless of what grade you are now in, either middle, or High School, if I were your parent, there would be a serious conversation with your schools principle as to just what is being taught in your school to have you so far off in understanding the constitution.

    First, let's back up a little and go to the part which you said:



    I only included this part of your post because the rest is essentially you just claiming that I am committing a logical fallacy, which beside not being correct, calls into question your understanding of what a logical fallacy is. But, it matters because living at home, with mom and dad, having them provide you a roof over your head, pay for your food, pay the utilities, leaves you with NO understanding what it takes to run a household.

    Now, let's take a look at the convoluted understanding you have of the constitution....You said:



    and this



    and this



    and this



    etc. etc.....

    Let me begin by posting the Opening words of our constitution:



    There are 6 things laid out here that our government is tasked to do to secure "the blessings of Liberty, and out Prosperity"....

    1. The government is tasked to form a "more Perfect Union" - Now, what do they mean by that? Without going into a long dissertation on this, it is simple, the Federal government is supposed to oversee a system that doesn't have each state working against each other. So therefore, we have common currency, common trade, and freedom of movement between states, which promotes tourism, among other things...

    2. "Establish Justice" - We have that in Article III establishing a court system.

    3. "Insure the Domestic Tranquility" - I believe they were talking about not having a government working against the people, or subjecting them to authoritarian style governance.

    4. "Provide for the common defense" - This is covered in the enumerated powers, we will cover that shortly.

    5. "Promote the general welfare" - This was to be done through the enumerated powers as well...When the founders used phrases like 'promote the general welfare, they never intended it to be receiving the monthly stipend check for assistance, or having the EBT card replenished on the 1st of the month for food allotment. No, they specifically laid out what they meant by promoting the general welfare, and what they were supposed to over see in order to do that:



    And

    6. "Secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity" - In order to secure these blessings, we remain a free people, not under the thumb of big government, that is after all what the founders were escaping.

    In short Daniel, like I said to open, your understanding of our founding document is so far opposed to the expressed intent of the document as to not at all be what it is...
    Why do you believe our federal Constitution may not be national in some aspects?

  4. #404
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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    Why do you believe our federal Constitution may not be national in some aspects?
    As in?
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    As in?
    As in, establishing some kind of "dole" system to engage a "War on Poverty". Why should any Person believe it is not implied in the power to provide for the general welfare?

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Current recess GOP talking point--no new jobs.
    DEM facts--49 straight months of private sector job growth after the bush swoon .
    Physics is Phun

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Oh we're up to 49 months? Nice.

    I remember back in the Bush days when Republicans were bragging about 52 consecutive months of job growth. If trends hold for a short while longer, we'll surpass that and then some before the end of this year.

    Damn Obama :p

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by danielpalos View Post
    As in, establishing some kind of "dole" system to engage a "War on Poverty". Why should any Person believe it is not implied in the power to provide for the general welfare?
    Because the constitution was set up to form a limited government. What don't you understand about that? The powers provided for in the constitution to promote the general welfare are enumerated in Article 1 Section 8. Read it.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    Current recess GOP talking point--no new jobs.
    DEM facts--49 straight months of private sector job growth after the bush swoon .
    Please explain to me why with all those consecutive months of job creation do we still have 20 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged and one million fewer people employed than when the Recession began at a cost of 6.7 trillion added to the debt?

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    What did we have before those 49 months?
    March of 2014 had a +930,000 gain in private sector employment compared to March of 2009.
    Only a conservative could argue with that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Please explain to me why with all those consecutive months of job creation do we still have 20 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged and one million fewer people employed than when the Recession began at a cost of 6.7 trillion added to the debt?
    How much of that total accumulated debt is interest on the inherited TAD?
    Why do GOPs say the interest will be one trillion at the end of the decade as a new recess talking point ?
    Physics is Phun

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