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Thread: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    So you classify the rich as all those with 401K's?
    I said 'almost exclusively'...not 'only'.

    If you can prove to me that the more then 1/4 of the monies earned through the growth of the stock markets since QE's began was done so not by the rich (millionaire's), I will change my point.

    Otherwise, I will not.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    I believe it would be simpler if anyone filing for unemployment is presumed to be otherwise not employed in the market for labor in any at-will employment State.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Hi there pinqy, Tell me, is a lower labor force a good thing? Does it show a strengthening economy, or a weakening one....
    It depends. Labor force participation rate is higher now than anytime before 1978....would you say we're better off now than anytime before 1978? I wouldn't. The participation rate has been going down since 2001.. the recession made it worse and we could tell that as discouraged went up, but there were demographic reasons, not just retirees, as well. Labor force going down because more teenagers are staying in school? Especially if they don't need jobs? That would be good. There are many different factors to look at.

    Now, I will concede that 'boomers' retiring are going to have some effect, but to pin the whole malaise on retirees is ludicrous.
    Sure. But it is a major factor.
    Retirees can be measured quite easily using either the SS roles, or Medicare roles to determine if these non participants are discouraged workers, or people over 65 that have retired.
    No, it's not that easy. You can still work and collect Social Security, you just face restrictions on hours. In March, there were 2.44 million people who were retired or faced social security limits on earnings who worked part time. And you seem to think that those not in the labor force are either retired or discouraged....which is ridiculous. Students, stay home spouses, disabled, independently wealthy, people who just mooch off of their friends, etc. There are around 90 million people 16 and older not in prison or an institution who are not looking for work. Less than a million are discouraged.


    Either way, it is, or at least should be unacceptable to anyone in this nation, Conservative, Liberal, Progressive, or Socialist, etc. that the Bull **** we are being fed is that because the labor participation rate drops, which is making the UE rate falsely look like it is coming down, and we are supposed to think that is a good thing.
    The UE rate is a measure of what percent of people trying to job are failing. Those not trying have zero chance of getting a job. That someone not trying to work in March didn't get a job is no surprise and tells us nothing about the labor market. That 6.6% of those who could actually have been working weren't tells us something.

    Here's the breakdown for those not in the labor force: http://www.bls.gov/web/empsit/cpseea38.htm
    Last edited by pinqy; 04-08-14 at 11:39 PM.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    You do absolutely amaze me.

    You don't even understand the difference between a gain and a loss which makes me at a loss of words here.

    It's ****ing weird.... 500 minus 750 does not translate into 250, however the government and their love fest for Obama and progressives deceptively portrays that it does. Now, you can bet your ass that if a republican was president the media would say 250 jobs were lost instead of saying 500 jobs were "created." Furthermore the best part of their propaganda is their language - they use the word "created" as if the government created jobs or Obama himself created jobs..
    Here's how the survey works. The businesses were asked in February how many people were on their payrolls for the pay period that included February 12th.. This was aggregated to represent the whole country. In March, they were asked again for the pay period that contained March 12th., and again it was aggregated. The difference was 192,000. Therefore, 192,000 new jobs. How do you see that as anything other than net? You want to see the gross numbers, go to Job Openings and Labor Turnover Survey Home Page for the Job Openings Labor Turnover Survey. It's not as timely as the CES, and the time frame is different...the CES asks how many were on the payroll for the one payperiod for the month, while JOLTS asks how many hires and separations for the whole month.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Why do you think all the addition to the labor force was from discouraged? You do realize that discouraged are only a small percentage of those not in the labor force, right?

    And other marginally attached? Person A quit looking for work because he believed he didn't have any s kills anyone wanted (discouraged). Person B quit looking because his mom was sick (marginally attached, reasons other than discouragement). Both are currently available to work but neither has started looking yet. Why do you say A is unemployed and B not?



    Ummm, no, that's a pretty objective measure. Either they're looking or not. Either they're doing something that could possibly get them a job, or not. Discouraged is subjective as it's all based on what someone says they want and why they stopped looking.

    "employable" is very subjective. And why would you count someone who doesn't want a job as in the labor force?

    The discouraged workers in the Month of March dropped to 698,000 from over 700,000 the month before so no the number re-entering the labor force did not all come from discouraged workers but that doesn't change the fact that 698,000 individuals were not counted in the monthly unemployment number and they definitely were unemployed. As I stated the discouraged worker number is an arbitrary number and very subjective but the more discouraged the better the official unemployment rate will be and that is the issue. GW Bush never had anywhere near the number of discouraged workers Obama had but he was charged with 700,000 lost jobs per month. so again I ask you is it better to have that many lost jobs or that many discouraged workers for the official unemployment rate?

    Why would I want to count someone who doesn't want a job in the labor force? Because they if they are able body people they should be counted in the labor force and that removes the subjectivity from the issue. Doesn't matter who the President is, they are all judged the same way and on objective numbers.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    We could be lowering our tax burden by simplifying public policies.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I said 'almost exclusively'...not 'only'.

    If you can prove to me that the more then 1/4 of the monies earned through the growth of the stock markets since QE's began was done so not by the rich (millionaire's), I will change my point.

    Otherwise, I will not.
    All this is so funny going from someone who I thought was a capitalist. Now you are poo pooing the record stock market recovery like a socialist at a Karl Marx convention. QE was not implemented to boost the stock market though. It is being used by the Fed to stave off DEFLATION. The contraction in the money supply caused by the financial meltdown brought us dangerously close to deflation. If you know anything about economics, deflation is the most damaging condition possible for a modern capitalist nation. You do not mess around with it.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The discouraged workers in the Month of March dropped to 698,000 from over 700,000 the month before so no the number re-entering the labor force did not all come from discouraged workers but that doesn't change the fact that 698,000 individuals were not counted in the monthly unemployment number and they definitely were unemployed.
    No, they don't match the definition of unemployed, therefore they're not unemployed, by definition. Why do you insist they're unemployed? And again, why discouraged and not other marginally attached?
    As I stated the discouraged worker number is an arbitrary number and very subjective but the more discouraged the better the official unemployment rate will be and that is the issue.
    It's not arbitrary...there's a strict definition. there are strict definitions for all categories. And actually, for the February to March change, the official rate didn't change, but the U-4, which adds in the discouraged, went down. So in this case, including the discouraged would have made things look better.
    GW Bush never had anywhere near the number of discouraged workers Obama had but he was charged with 700,000 lost jobs per month. so again I ask you is it better to have that many lost jobs or that many discouraged workers for the official unemployment rate?
    You can't compare a change in one metric to a level of another. It doesn't make any sense.

    Why would I want to count someone who doesn't want a job in the labor force? Because they if they are able body people they should be counted in the labor force and that removes the subjectivity from the issue.
    Why should they be counted in the labor force? They're not participating in the labor market...they're not available to work...they just distort the issue. And how are you figuring the definition of unemployed is subjective...it's quite objective. And which is is, do you want to include just discouraged or all people without jobs?

    Doesn't matter who the President is, they are all judged the same way and on objective numbers.
    Judged? There's not judging. Why would it make any difference to a person what category they fall in?
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Why not solve for the phenomenon of structural unemployment by using socialism to bailout capitalism?

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    All this is so funny going from someone who I thought was a capitalist. Now you are poo pooing the record stock market recovery like a socialist at a Karl Marx convention. QE was not implemented to boost the stock market though. It is being used by the Fed to stave off DEFLATION. The contraction in the money supply caused by the financial meltdown brought us dangerously close to deflation. If you know anything about economics, deflation is the most damaging condition possible for a modern capitalist nation. You do not mess around with it.
    I totally disagree with you...especially since the Fed has already admitted that one of the reasons for QE was to indirectly stimulate the economy through raising the stock market. And this goes along with the second Fed mandate which is for 'full employment'.

    Please show me exactly where Bernanke said that QE was started and continued ONLY for deflation?

    Btw - there is NOTHING free market about QE.

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