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Thread: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by coyotedelmar View Post
    Ermm...how would including the underemployed make a "real unemployment rate"? Want a full-time job or not, they are still employed so that'd be doctoring the numbers (so to speak).

    It is pretty well know the unemployment rate doesn't include the discouraged. I could see adding that plus the unemployed (actively looking) to create a more realistic rate, especially with how the economy went.
    Why would any unemployment rate that drops out the discouraged workers be accurate? Anyone that wants to work full time but cannot due to circumstances beyond their control are part of the U-6 rate and that rate to me is a better indicator of the economy than the "official" Unemployment rate
    Last edited by Conservative; 04-05-14 at 11:35 PM.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I asked for a specific example of when Socialism had to bail out Capitalism.
    Simply having a public sector is socialism bailing out capitalism.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Why would any unemployment rate that drops out the discouraged workers be accurate?
    They're not "dropped out," they've never been included. And the reason is found in WHY we're measuring unemployment. The purpose is to see how many people who could be working aren't. Someone not trying to work won't find a job regardless of whether they're discouraged, other marginally attached, can't work or don't want to work. Someone not trying to work doesn't tell us anything about how hard it is to find a job.

    Anyone that wants to work full time but cannot due to circumstances beyond their control are part of the U-6 rate and that rate to me is a better indicator of the economy than the "official" Unemployment rate
    But it's not measuring the same thing. The U-6 doesn't tell us how hard it is to find a job, but what percent of those who want to work and could be participating are not being used to the fullest.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    They're not "dropped out," they've never been included. And the reason is found in WHY we're measuring unemployment. The purpose is to see how many people who could be working aren't. Someone not trying to work won't find a job regardless of whether they're discouraged, other marginally attached, can't work or don't want to work. Someone not trying to work doesn't tell us anything about how hard it is to find a job.


    But it's not measuring the same thing. The U-6 doesn't tell us how hard it is to find a job, but what percent of those who want to work and could be participating are not being used to the fullest.
    Please name for me any other President in history that had over a million discouraged workers other than Obama who had the entire year of 2010 with more than one million each month? The fact that they have never been counted isn't nearly as important as the record number that Obama had and the fact that discouraged workers are indeed unemployed. Bush is accused of having 800 thousand lost each month and yet not once did he have a million discouraged workers and when you add the unemployed and discouraged workers together Obama sets the record and that is a fact that Obama supporters want to ignore. There isn't one month that Obama had that wasn't worse than any month during the Bush term. Getting people counted as discouraged vs. unemployed benefited Obama and fooled a lot of people.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Why not simplify our public policies to lower our tax burden?

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    While certainly useful, you can't get those numbers as timely. The most recent data I can find for household income is from 2012.
    The trend is there and there doesn't appear to be any upswing occurring. 2012 is not a long time ago with these sort of stats. Another more immediate indicator might be in the rise of food stamps.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Oh goody, one of my college graduate sons, moves back home still looing for a job in his field that pays enough for him to move out on his own and pay every day living expenses. And my younger son, forced to start his own small business with no federal government assistance as Obama and Dems offer larger upstarting corporations while he continues to study in College by taking advanced courses that may help his business. What a bunch of you know what. The first 4 Years under Obama and time under the Pelosi, Reid majority produced little of anything that helped recent grads, small business, those making less than min. wage or minimum wage or incentivizing large corporate hiring. They did nothing but blame the Minority and Bush for the past 5 years. What a bunch of losers.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Please name for me any other President in history that had over a million discouraged workers other than Obama who had the entire year of 2010 with more than one million each month?
    Since discouraged have only been counted since 1976, and the current definition (narrower in some respects, broader in others) since 1994, your question is irrelevant, especially considering change in population.

    The fact that they have never been counted isn't nearly as important as the record number that Obama had and the fact that discouraged workers are indeed unemployed.
    When the discussion is whether they should be considered unemployed then it's quite relevant that they've never been considered unemployed. That you think they should be because the level has been high under Obama is curious.

    Bush is accused of having 800 thousand lost each month and yet not once did he have a million discouraged workers and when you add the unemployed and discouraged workers together Obama sets the record and that is a fact that Obama supporters want to ignore.
    Even without adding in the discouraged, Obama's unemployment numbers have been higher than Bush's until recently. And again, population goes up. The U-4 for November 2008 (7.2%), December 2008 (7.7%), and January 2009 (8.3%), were all higher than the current 7.1%. Level is not as important as rate, because of population growth.

    There isn't one month that Obama had that wasn't worse than any month during the Bush term. Getting people counted as discouraged vs. unemployed benefited Obama and fooled a lot of people.
    Since the methodology didn't change, how could it have benefited Obama more? And how was On a ma "getting people counted as discouraged?" It's not like there was a choice.

    But you fail to state WHY you think discouraged should be classified as unemployed, and why not other marginally attached or others who want a job.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The trend is there and there doesn't appear to be any upswing occurring. 2012 is not a long time ago with these sort of stats.
    It is when the most recent employment/unemployment stats are for March 2014.
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

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    Re: Economy adds 192,000 jobs; unemployment rate holds steady at 6.7%

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    Since discouraged have only been counted since 1976, and the current definition (narrower in some respects, broader in others) since 1994, your question is irrelevant, especially considering change in population.

    When the discussion is whether they should be considered unemployed then it's quite relevant that they've never been considered unemployed. That you think they should be because the level has been high under Obama is curious.

    Even without adding in the discouraged, Obama's unemployment numbers have been higher than Bush's until recently. And again, population goes up. The U-4 for November 2008 (7.2%), December 2008 (7.7%), and January 2009 (8.3%), were all higher than the current 7.1%. Level is not as important as rate, because of population growth.

    Since the methodology didn't change, how could it have benefited Obama more? And how was On a ma "getting people counted as discouraged?" It's not like there was a choice.

    But you fail to state WHY you think discouraged should be classified as unemployed, and why not other marginally attached or others who want a job.
    It does seem that BLS disagrees with you as discouraged workers are indeed unemployed and looking for work. How convenient to not have them counted in the official numbers. Please note the highlighted area from the BLS actual report.

    The more discouraged workers the better the official rate shows and that is what the media and left always touts. Obama supporters will always ignore anything other than the official rate and give Obama credit when none is due.

    Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey
    Original Data Value

    Series Id: LNU05026645
    Not Seasonally Adjusted
    Series title: (Unadj) Not in Labor Force, Searched For Work and Available, Discouraged Reasons For Not Currently Looking
    Labor force status: Not in labor force
    Type of data: Number in thousands
    Age: 16 years and over
    Job desires/not in labor force: Want a job now
    Reasons not in labor force: Discouragement over job prospects (Persons who believe no job is available.)
    Years: 2001 to 2014

    Year Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec Annual
    2001 301 287 349 349 328 294 310 337 285 331 328 348 321
    2002 328 375 330 320 414 342 405 378 392 359 385 403 369
    2003 449 450 474 437 482 478 470 503 388 462 457 433 457
    2004 432 484 514 492 476 478 504 534 412 429 392 442 466
    2005 515 485 480 393 392 476 499 384 362 392 404 451 436
    2006 396 386 451 381 323 481 428 448 325 331 349 274 381
    2007 442 375 381 399 368 401 367 392 276 320 349 363 369
    2008 467 396 401 412 400 420 461 381 467 484 608 642 462
    2009 734 731 685 740 792 793 796 758 706 808 861 929 778
    2010 1065 1204 994 1197 1083 1207 1185 1110 1209 1219 1282 1318 1173
    2011 993 1020 921 989 822 982 1119 977 1037 967 1096 945 989
    2012 1059 1006 865 968 830 821 852 844 802 813 979 1068 909
    2013 804 885 803 835 780 1027 988 866 852 815 762 917 861
    2014 837 755 698

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