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Mozilla’s CEO steps down amid gay marriage furor[W:577]

AGENT J said:
1.) from a logical stand point it does otherwise you are only working in fantasy and not reality.
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I am working in fantasy. Reality must become my fantasy, because I require it.
AGENT J said:
2.) i was pointing out if it didnt matter (you say it shouldnt) we wouldnt have free have free speech
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I forgot ENTIRELY what we were talking about. I don't even remember my own posts on the matter.

Wait, was it something about how political statements we made 5 years ago shouldn't matter for a non-political job...Yeah that sounds right...meh
 
The Mark said:
1.)I find the use certain individuals put their freedom of speech to questionable, since it effectively cost someone who was not a politician their job, because they made a decision half a decade ago.

2.)THAT is what I find questionable. Not the freedom of speech, but the response to such, and further, the expectation of such a response on the part of those speaking.

3.)Maybe I'm over-thinking this though.
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1.) this is no new event, especially for hi profile employees
free speech has always and will always come with repercussions

2,) why is this very old response and consequence of freedom and rights questionable?

is this the first time somebody stepped down, was fired, contract wasnt renewed etc etc for thier views?

this is how freedom and rights works

3.) IMO i think you are but thats all its my opinion
 
The Mark said:
1.)I am working in fantasy. Reality must become my fantasy, because I require it.
I forgot ENTIRELY what we were talking about. I don't even remember my own posts on the matter.
2.)Wait, was it something about how political statements we made 5 years ago shouldn't matter for a non-political job...Yeah that sounds right...meh
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1.) lol while this is reality and in reality it matters and always will otherwise there is no freedom
2.) again reality proves that false and has many times, this is the price of freedoms and rights
 
ludin said:
what bothers me is a guy lost his job for no reason. that is what bothers me. it should bother you as well.

I guess that give business owner legit reasons to fire homosexuals that donate to homosexual causes since in theory that could hurt his business with a segment of the population.
opening a can of worms like this is a bad idea. the problem is other people haven't realized the danger of it yet.
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And for all of this to happen on the heels of the Supremes just last week clarifying once again that political donations are protected free speech. Just makes one shake their head in disbelief.

If Eich can be pushed out for his donation to Prop 8 by the intolerance of gay rights activists, then couldn't they very well find themselves forced out over their political contributions to props in states advocating gay marriage? I don't think that has sunk in for some.
 
AGENT J said:
1.) this is no new event, especially for hi profile employees
free speech has always and will always come with repercussions
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Indeed. But I don't have to like how some people utilize their free speech. I just have to respect their right to do so. Which the people complaining about this guy aren't doing.

Which makes me dislike THEIR use of free speech. Yet I WON'T be demanding they leave their job.

AGENT J said:
2,) why is this very old response and consequence of freedom and rights questionable?

is this the first time somebody stepped down, was fired, contract wasn't renewed etc etc for their views?

this is how freedom and rights works
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I don't like how it's working. We're too picky about what someone says and not enough about what they do. We care about what people think but not about their actions.
****in' BS is what we are.

AGENT J said:
3.) IMO i think you are but thats all its my opinion
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Oh I probably am. I usually do, with me it's either no thinking at all or overthinking. No middle-ground. (Not you, MG).
 
AGENT J said:
1.) lol while this is reality and in reality it matters and always will otherwise there is no freedom
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Oh my fantasy has freedom. People are nicer though.
AGENT J said:
2.) again reality proves that false and has many times, this is the price of freedoms and rights
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Don't you get it yet? I care not about reality. My fantasy or the highway.
 
Ahlevah said:
You're kidding, right? It's not enough to have Prop 8 thrown out by the courts. Now you have vindictive pricks like William Saletan writing on Slate.com that Eich should just be the beginning (Purge the Bigots) and you think conservatives should just roll over, hold hands with "labor activists and others," and make nice? Don't be naive. This is warfare of a different sort, but warfare nonetheless.
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Yeah sure.
 
The Mark said:
1.)Indeed. But I don't have to like how some people utilize their free speech. I just have to respect their right to do so.
2.) Which the people complaining about this guy aren't doing.
3.)Which makes me dislike THEIR use of free speech.
4.)Yet I WON'T be demanding they leave their job.

5.)I don't like how it's working. We're too picky about what someone says and not enough about what they do. We care about what people think but not about their actions.
****in' BS is what we are.

6.)Oh I probably am. I usually do, with me it's either no thinking at all or overthinking. No middle-ground.
7.)(Not you, MG).
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1.) I agree 100%
2.) while im sure there are some in general how are they not respecting his right to free speech? they responded with thier own and this is more about his actions not just speech
3.) why dont you like people voicing thier opinions on his bigoted views.
4.) while you have the right, i think your demands would be much harder for people to buy into.

5.) but this was about what he did more so than what he said. The grip is over hid donation not his feelings.
6.) im guilty of this too at times
7.) thats funny
 
ludin said:
what bothers me is a guy lost his job for no reason. that is what bothers me. it should bother you as well.
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To those on the wrong, holding and expressing an opinion or belief which they find disagreeable is plenty of reason for someone to lose his job, or otherwise suffer whatever adverse consequences the wrong can inflict.
 
The Mark said:
1.)Oh my fantasy has freedom. People are nicer though.
2.)Don't you get it yet? I care not about reality. My fantasy or the highway.
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1.) well i think that is an issue "nicer"

lets flash forward 50 years

gays now have equal rights and this guy just "says" he thinks marriage is a religious thing but he doesnt try to stop people from having them

i think nothign really big happens

but in a reality where people are being denied rights and this person tried to help that its no surprise with the first display of not nice (trying to deny rights) was returned.

2.) i see that lol
do i need E-Z pass to get on that highway :)
 
ludin said:
I guess that give business owner legit reasons to fire homosexuals that donate to homosexual causes since in theory that could hurt his business with a segment of the population.
opening a can of worms like this is a bad idea. the problem is other people haven't realized the danger of it yet.
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The pendulum is going to swing the other way. Antics such as what is being done to Mr. Eich, what they tried to do to the Duck Dynasty guy and to Chick-fil-A, and countless other such incidents, can only guarantee that decent people will run out of patience and tolerance for the minority of immoral freaks and their unending demands that we turn everything upside down just to cater to them.

I would hope that most of those with me on the right will hold to a higher ethical standard than those on the wrong have demonstrated; but you have to know that at some point, the perverts and their sycophants will find themselves being targeted using the same tactics that they pioneered against their victims. I hope most of us will be better than that, but it will only take a very small portion of us who are not to easily outnumber and outpower these freaks.
 
Grant said:
Whatever happens between consenting adults shouldn't be our business but I do notice that, in general, Leftists make more of sexual issues than does anyone else.
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Really? I don't see them passing laws against gay marriage.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
The pendulum is going to swing the other way. Antics such as what is being done to Mr. Eich, what they tried to do to the Duck Dynasty guy and to Chick-fil-A, and countless other such incidents, can only guarantee that decent people will run out of patience and tolerance for the minority of immoral freaks and their unending demands that we turn everything upside down just to cater to them.

I would hope that most of those with me on the right will hold to a higher ethical standard than those on the wrong have demonstrated; but you have to know that at some point, the perverts and their sycophants will find themselves being targeted using the same tactics that they pioneered against their victims. I hope most of us will be better than that, but it will only take a very small portion of us who are not to easily outnumber and outpower these freaks.
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Allowing gay couples to enter into a marriage contract = "turning everything upside down."
 
AGENT J said:
you keep pushing this lie but it fails each time.
I understand you want to distance yourself from thinking people should express thier rights unless they are decent based on your opinion but you still did and the thread proves that fact :)
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You continue to debate in an imaginary world of your own creation.:roll:
 
AGENT J said:
1.) I agree 100%
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Good.
AGENT J said:
2.) while im sure there are some in general how are they not respecting his right to free speech? they responded with their own and this is more about his actions not just speech
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Donations are a form of speech? Or something. He expressed his opinion through donating, how is that any different from expressing an opinion via talking? One involves money, of course, but so what?
AGENT J said:
3.) why dont you like people voicing thier opinions on his bigoted views.
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I care not about that. I care that they expected him to be fired/resign. If he was a liberal CEO who opposed Prop 8 and donated money to campaign against it, and demographics in California and Mozilla customers were reversed, would you support his resignation/firing in the face of outrage because he opposed it?
AGENT J said:
4.) while you have the right, i think your demands would be much harder for people to buy into.
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People are idiots that way. I'm one of em, I should know.
AGENT J said:
5.) but this was about what he did more so than what he said. The grip is over hid donation not his feelings.
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If I donate money to something I support, how is that not speaking my mind? Just because I use the medium of money to do so? How does that make sense? Money is a way to get your message heard by more people.
 
Jack Hays said:
You continue to debate in an imaginary world of your own creation.:roll:
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nope just exactly what you said but its a good move distancing yourself from that failed garbage you posted
 
The Mark said:
1.)Donations are a form of speech? Or something. He expressed his opinion through donating, how is that any different from expressing an opinion via talking? One involves money, of course, but so what?
2.) I care not about that. I care that they expected him to be fired/resign.
3.) If he was a liberal CEO who opposed Prop 8 and donated money to campaign against it, and demographics in California and Mozilla customers were reversed, would you support his resignation/firing in the face of outrage because he opposed it?
4.)People are idiots that way. I'm one of em, I should know.
5.) If I donate money to something I support, how is that not speaking my mind? Just because I use the medium of money to do so? How does that make sense? Money is a way to get your message heard by more people.
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1.) VERY different you dont really need this fact and reality explain to you do you?

simply saying you think something and actually taking action are HUGELY different.

there are lots of people that THINK and SAY that they feel marriage is man and wife but they would NEVER actually deny others rights

he donated money in an attempt to deny others rights.

hugely different and one is in fact bigotry

2.) why people expect all types of things

3.) again i dont "support" anything but equal rights, and as long as your example involves free speech or rights and nothign illegal im all good with it. again, reality and all.

4.) disagree or not ive never thought you were an "idiot" lol

5.) didnt say it wasnt speaking your mind i pointed out the huge difference of the circumstance.

donating money to a cause that is just a cuase is not the same as trying to deny others rights, you have to see that fact.

if i donate money to the fire department because i believe in such a service is not the same as donating to the Klan.
 
AGENT J said:
1.) VERY different you dont really need this fact and reality explain to you do you?

simply saying you think something and actually taking action are HUGELY different.

there are lots of people that THINK and SAY that they feel marriage is man and wife but they would NEVER actually deny others rights

he donated money in an attempt to deny others rights.

hugely different and one is in fact bigotry

2.) why people expect all types of things

3.) again i dont "support" anything but equal rights, and as long as your example involves free speech or rights and nothign illegal im all good with it. again, reality and all.

4.) disagree or not ive never thought you were an "idiot" lol

5.) didnt say it wasnt speaking your mind i pointed out the huge difference of the circumstance.

donating money to a cause that is just a cuase is not the same as trying to deny others rights, you have to see that fact.

if i donate money to the fire department because i believe in such a service is not the same as donating to the Klan.
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How is donating money in support of something you believe in any different than donating money in support of something you believe in?

Just because one wishes to stop SSM and the other wants to support SSM? One is bigotry IMO, it is true, but bigotry is freedom of speech just as anti-bigotry is.

Freedom of speech is letting the assholes speak their (questionably existent) minds.

I include donating money in that category, because money is just a vehicle to present your opinion, especially in this case.


Edit: How can it be considered reasonable or fair to demand someone step down/be fired because you disagree with their choice of topics to speak about?
 
The Mark said:
1.)How is donating money in support of something you believe in any different than donating money in support of something you believe in?

2.) Just because one wishes to stop SSM and the other wants to support SSM? One is bigotry IMO, it is true, but bigotry is freedom of speech just as anti-bigotry is.

3.) Freedom of speech is letting the assholes speak their (questionably existent) minds.

3.) I include donating money in that category, because money is just a vehicle to present your opinion, especially in this case.


Edit: How can it be considered reasonable or fair to demand someone step down/be fired because you disagree with their choice of topics to speak about?
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1.) again the difference is so obvious and factual.
donating money to an FD is no where near the same as donating money to say bring back slavery.

they are going to get different reactions, this fact wont change

2.) I agree 100% but that doesnt change the response it gets

3.) also agree that why west boro has it and i would never take it ways from them even though they are complete trash

4.) again things will always be treated different depending on reality and what they factually are.

if I tell you i think your wife/daughter/mother/sister is unpleasant or say im not really a fan of hers that is free speech and it may get a reaction from you

if i tell you i think your wife/daughter/mother/sister is a **** sucking whore and that bitch is nothing but a worthless ****, that is also free speech and will probably get me some free dental work :) (a DIFFERENT reaction)

things can be the same and VERY different at the same time
 
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rabbitcaebannog said:
I call it polarizing...
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It's more than polarizing. It's repugnant, and counterproductive to people who support gay rights:

There is only one permissible opinion at Mozilla, and all dissidents must be purged! Yep, that’s left-liberal tolerance in a nut-shell. No, he wasn’t a victim of government censorship or intimidation. He was a victim of the free market in which people can choose to express their opinions by boycotts, free speech and the like. He still has his full First Amendment rights. But what we’re talking about is the obvious and ugly intolerance of parts of the gay movement, who have reacted to years of being subjected to social obloquy by returning the favor....

This is a repugnantly illiberal sentiment. It is also unbelievably stupid for the gay rights movement. You want to squander the real gains we have made by argument and engagement by becoming just as intolerant of others’ views as the Christianists? You’ve just found a great way to do this. It’s a bad, self-inflicted blow. And all of us will come to regret it.

The Hounding Of A Heretic, Ctd « The Dish
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Be sure to bathe yourself in that last sentence so you completely absorb it.
 
AGENT J said:
*snip*
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Using your analogy:

If I tell you your mother is a ********ing whore, that's free speech.
If I pay a band to compose a song about your mother being a ********ing whore, that's ridiculous overkill but also free speech (I think?). And I didn't actually say anything to you personally.

That's why I'm not seeing the disconnect between a political donation to promote a cause vs saying something to promote a cause.

Different forms, same intent.
 
Kobie said:
Allowing gay couples to enter into a marriage contract = "turning everything upside down."
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That has nothing to do with the thread nor does it have anything to do with his post.
forcing someone out of a job because they don't agree with your opinion to me is a dangerous road to go down as you make yourself victim to the same.
 
AGENT J said:
no

think
feeling
saying
teaching your own
preaching

that gay marriage is wrong or being gay is wrong is not bigotry

trying to deni them rights or treating them as leasers is bigotry

theres a HUGE difference.

there are lots of people that feel marriage is a man woman thing personally but they fully support equal rights because they respect peoples rights
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OK, I got ya, I think....So, people that disagree with the LGBT agenda are free to have those beliefs, as long as they don't speak them publicly, or donate anything to opposition of them, or else they open themselves to harassment, and attack to the point where they are forced to resign from their job...And this isn't fascism? I mean I get that people are passionate about this issue, but how is it that any squelching of LGBT voicing their agenda in the public square, ie protest, or donation, or what ever would be seen by advocates as a stomping on the free speech rights of the LGBT community, and would be met with ramped up vitriol, and cries of fascistic suppression. However, because it is aimed not AT the LGBT community, but rather at an individual that did little more than donate years ago to a cause on a ballot up for referendum by the people, and chose what is perceived by the passionate as "the wrong side", well, then he must be 'isolated, destroyed, and marginalized' in the purest form of Alinski style debasement.

How is it that the supporters of these memes cant see how it is that they are carrying out what they claim to be attacking? I just don't get it I suppose.
 
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