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Thread: Mozilla’s CEO steps down amid gay marriage furor[W:577]

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    Re: Mozilla’s CEO steps down amid gay marriage furor[W:577]

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    It was pressure from the GOP leadership that got him to step down. But, speaking of healthy heterosexual activity, how about Senator Diaper Dan Vitter? LOL.
    It amuses me sometimes that the Republican diehards will claim that a. Democrats are the party of sexual indiscretion, and b. Republicans always step down when caught with their pants down, when Vitter the ****ter is still happily occupying 1% of the Senate.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Mozilla’s CEO steps down amid gay marriage furor[W:577]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And we can all remember how Larry Craig was treated by the Democrats.
    Oh, you mean the guy who ran on "family values" with one hand while jacking people off with the other, and was the guy who led the charge to censure Barney Frank? Yeah, poor Larry Craig.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Mozilla’s CEO steps down amid gay marriage furor[W:577]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post

    Maybe, perhaps and probably? The fact is that you have nothing to support your position.
    Well, it depends which part of my post you mean. You didn't quote any one specific part. I can tell you for FACT a person working a private sector at will job can be fired for saying anything about his or her political views no matter how innocent. For instance, someone could say, "I think 'insert any name' was the worst president ever" in the break room and be sent packing that day. Political speech in the private sector is NOT protected. I'm certainly not agreeing with that restriction of freedom but that is the reality of what we are dealing with[sic]. I'm sorry to hear that some people in the company were offended enough from Eich's actions that they felt it unpalatable for him to be CEO but I can fully understand it. It happens all the time for those average workers. You say something that ticks off a higher up and you are gone. Sometimes with zero compensation. I'm rather surprised people are unaware that workers in private companies do NOT have such freedoms at the workplace, rather your opinions are work related or not. Someone like me pushes for those workers to enjoy the same freedoms. People who work for private companies can get fired for having the wrong bumper sticker on their private property, for being too fat, having bad habits off the job etc..etc....I digress. That currently is the way it works so Eich feeling pressure to step down is not a shocker to me. What's good for the goose is good for the gander unless people want to change this for EVERYONE. Not just some CEO the media is making into some kind of sacrificial lamb.
    Last edited by rabbitcaebannog; 04-06-14 at 09:26 AM.

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    Re: Mozilla’s CEO steps down amid gay marriage furor[W:577]

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Sorry, Jack, but Grant just took the gold from you. You can no longer claim to have contributed the dumbest post to this thread. Would you like to see if you can top him?
    I take your squawking as a badge of honor. Thanks.
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Mozilla’s CEO steps down amid gay marriage furor[W:577]

    Lol, I just came across this article and want to ask if conservatives are in or out? Put your outrage to work-

    Here's the question: Simply put, if conservatives are frustrated by the treatment of Eich for his role in Proposition 8, then they should be outraged by the treatment of ordinary people at the hands of the people who employ them.

    Snip- Mozilla and Brendan Eich’s resignation: Why don’t conservatives want to protect ordinary people from discrimination?

    "But let’s grant that Sullivan and the National Review are right. That Eich’s forced resignation is an attack on speech, and that this is an ugly bout of bullying against someone who hasn’t expressed his views in the context of his job. If that’s true, then Eich is just the highest profile victim of a status quo that threatens countless workers.

    Title VII of the Civil Rights Act might protect workers from discrimination on the basis of their race, color, religion, sex, age, or national origin, but almost everything else is fair game for private employers who want to get rid of workers. Not only can you be fired for your political views—for sporting the wrong bumper sticker on your car, for instance—or for being “sexually irresistible” to your boss, but in most states (29, to be precise), you can be fired for your sexual orientation or gender identification, no questions asked.

    Overall, the large majority of Americans have at-will employment, which means that—outside of protected classes such as race or religion—they can be fired for any reason at all. For someone like Eich, this isn’t a huge deal: He will survive his brush with joblessness. The same can’t be said for millions of low-income workers who face termination lest they give their bosses their complete obedience.

    For a taste of what this looks like, and if you’ve never worked a retail job, you should read former Politico reporter Joseph Williams on his time in a sporting goods store. For a pittance of a paycheck, he consented to constant searches, unpaid labor, and borderline wage theft. It’s a precarious existence, made worse by the fact that saying the wrong thing at the wrong time—either on the job or off it—could result in you losing your job, with no recourse.

    And of course, employment discrimination against LGBT Americans is a real and ongoing problem. According to a 2011 report from the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank, at least 15 percent of gay Americans have faced discrimination and harassment at the workplace on the basis of their orientation, and at least 8 percent report being passed over for a job or fired. A whopping 90 percent of transgender individuals report some sort of harassment on the job. It’s doesn’t minimize Eich’s situation (if you’re opposed to his resignation) to note that gay people are far more likely to face discrimination than opponents of same-sex marriage.

    In any case, there’s nothing conservatives can do about Eich’s resignation. But they can join with labor activists and others to push for greater worker protections, like the Employee Non-Discrimination Act. For as much as employer flexibility is important to a dynamic economy, it’s also true that no one should fear firing for the people they love, the identity they claim, or the donations they make.

    Simply put, if conservatives are frustrated by the treatment of Eich for his role in Proposition 8, then they should be outraged by the treatment of ordinary people at the hands of the people who employ them."

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    Re: Mozilla’s CEO steps down amid gay marriage furor[W:577]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Cue the people who start crying about "freedom of speech" without understanding what it means.
    So if an employee says "I'm gay" and his boss kicks his ass to the curb because he's a disruption to the company or work environment, what rights, if any, of the employee are violated?
    Нава́льный 2018

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    Re: Mozilla’s CEO steps down amid gay marriage furor[W:577]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Do you think that morality has increased or decreased during the last generation? What is the source of public morality, or is it all about laws?
    I think your morality is not sufficient reason by itself to decide whether or not it should be legal for me to do something. And vice versa. Do you really want the government of the United States enforcing someone else's moral code upon you based solely on the fact that they disapprove of your actions?
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Mozilla’s CEO steps down amid gay marriage furor[W:577]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    His vote for proposition 8 occurred six years ago and 52% of the Californiia voters agreed with him, as well as Barrack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Should they also lose their jobs or, in Hillary's case, be disallowed from seeking public office? Mozilla's Gay-Marriage Litmus Test Violates Liberal Values - Conor Friedersdorf - The Atlantic
    I know this is old, but I've seen this argument about 30 times.

    It's a good thing to change your mind. If Obama was against gay marriage before the election (I doubt it but it doesn't matter) then he's changed his mind, and has a record now, and a quite extensive one, of fighting for gay rights, including a repeal of DADT which is probably the biggest barrier for LGBT in the Federal government and therefore under his jurisdiction. He's also pushed for, and as far as I know enacted, regulations that give same sex couples federal benefits on par with heterosexuals. So Obama has a LONG history now in the highest position of government of direct ACTION on behalf of and in support of LGBT. When it mattered, and he had ultimate authority, Obama was on their side. Why in the world would anyone hold an opinion he might have held six years ago against him now?

    Eich is part of an organization that treats it's gay employees by all accounts very well, so he can rightly claim that he has a record of supporting them AT WORK. But he wasn't CEO then, and he also has a history of action that would reduce gay rights and maintain their PRIVATE relationships as second class, and he's never waffled on that position. It's that last part that's key. Where did he say his gay employees deserve equal rights outside of work? He hasn't, and that's a key distinction between Eich and Obama (and Hillary AFAIK).

    I've read accounts by Mozilla employees who admire Eich, but understand why he left. Essentially it comes down to 1) not waffling on his support for Prop 8, OR 2) not really even trying to explain the disconnect between supporting LGBT rights in the workforce, but also supporting efforts to reduce their rights to second class in their private lives.

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    Re: Mozilla’s CEO steps down amid gay marriage furor[W:577]

    Quote Originally Posted by Anthony60 View Post
    It says "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California." So, it clearly defines marriage. It doesn't strip any rights from anyone. This isn't actually up for debate. (Cool how I can just make that declaration).
    Yes, and similarly anti-miscegenation laws that prohibited interracial marriage also didn't restrict or strip anyone's rights. They simply defined marriage as only between a man and woman of the same RACE.

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    Re: Mozilla’s CEO steps down amid gay marriage furor[W:577]

    Quote Originally Posted by rabbitcaebannog View Post
    Lol, I just came across this article and want to ask if conservatives are in or out? Put your outrage to work-

    Here's the question: Simply put, if conservatives are frustrated by the treatment of Eich for his role in Proposition 8, then they should be outraged by the treatment of ordinary people at the hands of the people who employ them.



    Simply put, if conservatives are frustrated by the treatment of Eich for his role in Proposition 8, then they should be outraged by the treatment of ordinary people at the hands of the people who employ them."
    Sorry-- total strawman.

    The argument is this:

    Mozilla certainly had the right to request his resignation, because, as has been pointed out repeatedly, it would be impossible for him to be effective in his job, in light of the campaign against him. There is no claim that his rights were violated, or that new laws need to be made.

    Its the nature of the campaign that was objectionable. There were no claims that his job performance was tainted by his opposition to same sex marriage. No claims that, in 2008 as he was writing out his $1000 check, or that in any year, he was purging gays on the job, or creating a hostile workplace. He was not advocating his opposition on the job, or indeed to co-workers off job time. Nobody seemed to know of his opposition. He was a man who showed up to work everyday and did his job well, and who in the judgement of the Board of directors, was quite suitable for the job of CEO.

    He had a personal opinion at odds with many employees of Mozilla. And they would not tolerate it.
    And their lack of tolerance is the problem.

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