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Thread: FBI Seizes Thousands of Artifacts from rural Indiana Home

  1. #61
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    Re: FBI Seizes Thousands of Artifacts from rural Indiana Home

    this isn't about arrowheads. This is a collector and there are laws that govern such things and there must be some evidence that some of his massive collection, which is far more than Native American artifacts, is illegal. We shall see what comes out but a more complete story is here Thousands of artifacts removed from rural Indiana home

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    Re: FBI Seizes Thousands of Artifacts from rural Indiana Home

    Thanks for posting this link. According to it, the goal is "repatriation" of artifacts to many different countries, and cataloging everything could take decades. Wow. That's a lot of artifacts!

    And this archived article from 1998 about Don Miller's collection was linked on the page:
    Rush County home is full of collectibles from years of missionary work around the globe

    There are other links available at this last link above.

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    Re: FBI Seizes Thousands of Artifacts from rural Indiana Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Sababa View Post
    this isn't about arrowheads. This is a collector and there are laws that govern such things and there must be some evidence that some of his massive collection, which is far more than Native American artifacts, is illegal. We shall see what comes out but a more complete story is here Thousands of artifacts removed from rural Indiana home
    Exactly correct.

    I had a friend who lived near Mimbres, New Mexico. He pointed me to areas where if you dug the hard dry ground, you could find pieces of pottery, possibly dating back to the Mogollon Culture.

    Of course, anything found or dug on what was National Forest Land or BLM land must be declared, it must be reported to local authorities, as I understand, it is not exactly legal to mine for pottery or artifacts on those lands.

    The Mimbres branch is a subset of the larger Mogollon culture area, centered in the Mimbres Valley and encompassing the upper Gila River and parts of the upper San Francisco River in southwestern New Mexico and southeastern Arizona as well as the Rio Grande Valley and it western tributaries in southwest New Mexico. Differentiation between the Mimbres branch and other areas of the Mogollon culture area is most apparent during the Three Circle (AD 825-1000 roughly) and Classic Mimbres (AD 1000-1150) phases, when architectural construction and black and white painted pottery assume locally distinctive forms and styles.[5] Classic Mimbres phase pottery is particularly famous pottery, and Classic Mimbres pottery designs (mainly drawn from the Swarts Ruin excavations of 1924-1927) were imitated on Santa Fe Railroad "Mimbreños" china dinnerware from 1936-1970.
    Mogollon culture - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Gila Cliff Dwellings National Monument (U.S. National Park Service)

    Gila-Cliff-Dwelling-6838.jpg

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    Re: FBI Seizes Thousands of Artifacts from rural Indiana Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfly View Post
    No he hasn't been arrested or charged, but I don't think it's right that they are seizing artifacts that he's been collecting for 80 years. They are seizing it to determine if he broke a law?

    That doesn't seem right that they can do that. I understand that there are certain things that are not allowed to own, like moon rocks. But it's not like moon rocks have been laying all over the ground for the last several thousand years. He probably started collecting arrow heads when he was a little boy, and has done so for the rest of his life. I have a neighbor who collects all sorts of artifacts, and she has found a bullet and a piece of a belt buckle from the Civil War. Does she have to worry about stuff like that now?
    It only makes sense they could do that. If they were illegally obtained, and he knew he was being investigated, what would be to stop him from selling them?

    This seems heavy-handed only because the guy is 91. The feds aren't shaking the guy down ... obviously something raised a red flag. We don't know nearly enough about this to be rushing to judgement. And this coming from someone who almost never comes down on the side of LE.
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    Re: FBI Seizes Thousands of Artifacts from rural Indiana Home

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Yet you could rob 20 banks before the FBI made any head way in catching you.
    Really? Who's the last person to rob 20 banks without getting caught? GO.
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    Re: FBI Seizes Thousands of Artifacts from rural Indiana Home

    This is a dicy situation. real indian artifacts are highly collectable as not a lot of them exist more so in good shape. a lot of them were destroyed.
    due to the high collect ability and expensive price that goes with it indian graves are being robbed.

    they are then sold to what one would consider legit businesses but they are not. while this guy has been collecting he could have by accident purchased stolen indian artifacts as a legit transaction.

    i feel bad for him but you really need to know what you are buying more so when it comes to that sort of thing and understand the law behind it.
    any individual that has a large amount of good artifacts automatically comes under suspicion as to where he is getting them all.

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    Re: FBI Seizes Thousands of Artifacts from rural Indiana Home

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    It was stolen property. Technically it belongs to the tribe of whatever area it came from.
    If i am 25% native american do 25% of the artifacts belong to me?

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    Re: FBI Seizes Thousands of Artifacts from rural Indiana Home

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Really? Who's the last person to rob 20 banks without getting caught? GO.
    I said "could". Go.

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    Re: FBI Seizes Thousands of Artifacts from rural Indiana Home

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    Take them and do what you want with them. Skip them across a lake for all it matters.

    White people pretending this matters to Native Americans is this stupid guilt-trip thing that serves no value whatsoever. Digging up graves is one thing, but finding arrow heads? Sure, the white people government says those are all theirs so you dare not touch them. Do whatever you want with them. Sell them on Ebay. Display them on a wall. Doesn't mean anything at all.
    It's not about who they belong to, it's about leaving things untouched so others can enjoy the find.

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    Re: FBI Seizes Thousands of Artifacts from rural Indiana Home

    Quote Originally Posted by lizzie View Post
    It isn't always illegal to dig and sell them. It depends on where you're digging, and who is buying. Back around 20 years ago, my husband and I used to go dig down in central Tx on private property, where you could pay a daily fee, and dig all you wanted. A year or two later, some archaeologists from one of the universities (iirc) dug the site as well. I have acquaintances who authenticate points for people who want to know that what they are buying is the real deal. I also have friends who make replica points and sell them.
    If it's legal fine. Most of my experience with artifacts has been in Utah where I have always taken my spring vacation and it is highly illegal there because of all the Anasazi ruins that get pilfered, not to mention all the dino stuff you can find laying around.

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