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Thread: Lawmakers outraged over Iran U.N. choice, seek change in law.....

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    Re: Lawmakers outraged over Iran U.N. choice, seek change in law.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What prevents the US from not recognizing Abutalebi's diplomatic immunity and arresting him as soon as he lands at the airport in NY? The UN and Iran can scream all they want.
    U.S. ratification of the Vienna Convention. If he's in a position that carries full diplomatic immunity (and his position would come with such immunity) and the U.S. issues him a visa, it is barred from its own commitments to the Vienna Convention from doing so. Of course, it has the power to do so as there is little Iran could do to prevent it, but such a decision would essentially signal to the world that the U.S. does not respect the privileges and immunities of the foreign diplomats it accepts. That would create a bad precedent. Other states could then deny American (or even other countries' diplomats) the privileges and immunities that go with their positions. Such an environment would impair diplomacy and reduced latitude for diplomacy would not benefit American interests in the larger context.

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    Re: Lawmakers outraged over Iran U.N. choice, seek change in law.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    What prevents the US from not recognizing Abutalebi's diplomatic immunity and arresting him as soon as he lands at the airport in NY? The UN and Iran can scream all they want.
    That's why I asked about.....why do we need to make up another law over this? McCain is heading off into senility.....so why do people listen to him anymore?

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    Re: Lawmakers outraged over Iran U.N. choice, seek change in law.....

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    U.S. ratification of the Vienna Convention. If he's in a position that carries full diplomatic immunity (and his position would come with such immunity) and the U.S. issues him a visa, it is barred from its own commitments to the Vienna Convention from doing so. Of course, it has the power to do so as there is little Iran could do to prevent it, but such a decision would essentially signal to the world that the U.S. does not respect the privileges and immunities of the foreign diplomats it accepts. That would create a bad precedent. Other states could then deny American (or even other countries' diplomats) the privileges and immunities that go with their positions. Such an environment would impair diplomacy and reduced latitude for diplomacy would not benefit American interests in the larger context.
    Hmm... might not be worth it for such a small fry as this Iranian. Wonder if the UN would be persuaded to reject his eligibility and therefore block diplomatic immunity before he has the ability to use it. I'm sure there's more than one way to skin that cat but as you point out, are the implications worth the risk - probably not is my view.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Lawmakers outraged over Iran U.N. choice, seek change in law.....

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    This might be more of a kind of turf battle for power between the Legislative and Executive branches that periodically emerges than concern about dealing with deficiencies in existing law. The Executive Branch already possesses the authority to deny persons entry into the U.S., including diplomats, through its management of visas.

    For some in Congress, leaving such discretion with the Executive Branch is not sufficient, as the outcome of its exercise of such authority might not always be consistent with the wishes of those Members of Congress. Hence, there is the questioning e.g., by Senator McCain, as to whether new laws are needed. Those laws, of course, would chip away at the Executive Branch's discretionary authority rather than create new legal authority.

    Mornin' DS. Well I am all for chippin away from those Presidential Powers. No matter who is sitting in there. But then I also look at why create more laws when we already have one that is in place.

    Once again.....they use the term Moderate for this Iranian. So far our people haven't been so keen on as to what that Moderation exactly is.

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    Re: Lawmakers outraged over Iran U.N. choice, seek change in law.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Mornin' DS. Well I am all for chippin away from those Presidential Powers. No matter who is sitting in there. But then I also look at why create more laws when we already have one that is in place.

    Once again.....they use the term Moderate for this Iranian. So far our people haven't been so keen on as to what that Moderation exactly is.
    Unfortunately, "moderate" is used in a relative sense. This distinction can be lost on the public e.g., the public might view President Rouhani as a partner with whom the U.S. can easily do business. That he might be moderate relative to ex-President Ahmadinejad does not mean that he desires a constructive relationship with the U.S. Putting aside his rhetoric, one sees only small movement on the nuclear front (far short of what is actually needed to alleviate the concerns of the international community and Iran's neighbors), continuing involvement in assisting Iranian proxies such as Hezbollah, no changes in Iran's hardline rejection of Israel's legitimacy, etc. As time passes, and big changes fail to materialize, I suspect that the American public will become disillusioned. Yet, the disillusionment will largely be the result of oversized expectations based largely on hopeful assumptions that had little grounding in fact to begin with.

    I see no reason not to reach out to him to "test" him. There may be some areas where improvement in relations could be possible. But my expectations are low overall. First, he is a product of a state that retains a revolutionary ideology that runs counter to American interests and allies. Second, Iran is seeking regional hegemony. Third, Ayatollah Khamenei wields the real power and that would limit any big changes in direction. Iran should be judged by its actions, not its softer rhetoric. To date, its actions remain largely unchanged and the progress to date in the nuclear talks is mostly a matter of process. There is no concrete agreement to limit or end Iran's enrichment activities, much less for it to eliminate its enriched nuclear material. No breakthroughs on that front appear imminent.

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    Re: Lawmakers outraged over Iran U.N. choice, seek change in law.....

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Unfortunately, "moderate" is used in a relative sense. This distinction can be lost on the public e.g., the public might view President Rouhani as a partner with whom the U.S. can easily do business. That he might be moderate relative to ex-President Ahmadinejad does not mean that he desires a constructive relationship with the U.S. Putting aside his rhetoric, one sees only small movement on the nuclear front (far short of what is actually needed to alleviate the concerns of the international community and Iran's neighbors), continuing involvement in assisting Iranian proxies such as Hezbollah, no changes in Iran's hardline rejection of Israel's legitimacy, etc. As time passes, and big changes fail to materialize, I suspect that the American public will become disillusioned. Yet, the disillusionment will largely be the result of oversized expectations based largely on hopeful assumptions that had little grounding in fact to begin with.

    I see no reason not to reach out to him to "test" him. There may be some areas where improvement in relations could be possible. But my expectations are low overall. First, he is a product of a state that retains a revolutionary ideology that runs counter to American interests and allies. Second, Iran is seeking regional hegemony. Third, Ayatollah Khamenei wields the real power and that would limit any big changes in direction. Iran should be judged by its actions, not its softer rhetoric. To date, its actions remain largely unchanged and the progress to date in the nuclear talks is mostly a matter of process. There is no concrete agreement to limit or end Iran's enrichment activities, much less for it to eliminate its enriched nuclear material. No breakthroughs on that front appear imminent.
    Well both Kirk and Menendez don't feel like the Iranians are showing anything.....and unfortunately there is none in the White House that can show the American people any confidence.

    Obama practicing how to put bass in his voice.....just doesn't cut it anymore.

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    Re: Lawmakers outraged over Iran U.N. choice, seek change in law.....

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Mornin' German. Do you think we need to pass some law when we cn just pull his visa? Have you seen any commenting from those overseas and what we are saying about this Iranian Ambassador to the UN? Comments on anything we have said or the Iranians?
    At least one can voice discontent and demand a statement from him.

    Rather than accepting what he did.

    I have seen various interviews with Carter and other senior former leading US politicians who agree that supporting the Shah was wrong.

    And I think the British government is even willing to appologise to a friendlier Iran for their role in bringing the Shah to power.

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    Re: Lawmakers outraged over Iran U.N. choice, seek change in law.....

    On one hand, we have a diplomat who was indirectly involved with a hostage situation that ended bloodlessly 35 years ago. On the other, we have nuclear proliferation right now that could cause an arms race in the entire region. Our political leadership have analyzed the situation and realized that because Argo was a box office hit, undermining the nuclear deal to whip up some faux outrage will get them some votes. Preventing a nuclear arms race in the middle east may be vital to U.S. interests, but unfortunately effective foreign policy is too complicated to condense into a motivating sound byte come election season.

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    Re: Lawmakers outraged over Iran U.N. choice, seek change in law.....



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    Re: Lawmakers outraged over Iran U.N. choice, seek change in law.....

    I find the choice of a diplomat on the part of Iran to be humorous. I don't consider the diplomat or what he did humorous. I just think it is a creative way for Iran to mess with one of its enemies. But I do appreciate the congress spending their time on this issue. At least it keeps them away from spending more of my money.

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