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Thread: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood[W:87, 145]

  1. #241
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It proves that there are others who are saying that "yes, opposite sex people are allowed to visit Army barracks rooms". You have yet to provide anything except your personal experience, which I have easily accounted for as either outdated or simply policy of that commander of the base at the time you were there. Commanders change every so many years, and many policies change with them.
    And, we don't have a clue who, or what these people are.

    Look, there are reasons that females aren't allowed in male quarters: one, is safety, for both the male and the female. If there are no females in the male only areas, their won't be any inappropriate conduct around said female, she can't get raped and no male soldier can be accused of sexual harassment, rape, or attempted rape. Second, is security; no one really knows who this non-resident female is. She might lift someone's personal affects. In that regard, that's why no civilians are typically allowed in any living quarters, not even soldiers from other units for the most part. That's just basic barracks security.

    Just because your brother's chain of command was to weak and unprofessional to keep strangers out of their soldiers's living quarters doesn't mean that it's the norm; far from it in fact. Had your brother been in my unit, your butt would have been hanging out in the day-room and if you, or your brother had a problem with that, you could carry your self off post and he would be counciled as to what unit policy is, means and how it's to executed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  2. #242
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    And, we don't have a clue who, or what these people are.

    Look, there are reasons that females aren't allowed in male quarters: one, is safety, for both the male and the female. If there are no females in the male only areas, their won't be any inappropriate conduct around said female, she can't get raped and no male soldier can be accused of sexual harassment, rape, or attempted rape. Second, is security; no one really knows who this non-resident female is. She might lift someone's personal affects. In that regard, that's why no civilians are typically allowed in any living quarters, not even soldiers from other units for the most part. That's just basic barracks security.

    Just because your brother's chain of command was to weak and unprofessional to keep strangers out of their soldiers's living quarters doesn't mean that it's the norm; far from it in fact. Had your brother been in my unit, your butt would have been hanging out in the day-room and if you, or your brother had a problem with that, you could carry your self off post and he would be counciled as to what unit policy is, means and how it's to executed.
    Except many places do allow them in the rooms. You are basing your answers off of your personal experience, and, as I've said, it is outdated.

    The incidents you describe can happen anywhere or with anyone. A woman or a man can claim someone came onto them falsely or someone can try to sexually assault someone else. If it were security, as you described, then male visitors wouldn't be allowed either. But it isn't true. I can bring up the rules for several Army bases and their barracks if you wish.

    Hey look I found the Fort Hood policy on it.

    http://www.hood.army.mil/dpw/Housing/Files/CSM-02.pdf

    Would you like other bases?
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #243
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Except many places do allow them in the rooms. You are basing your answers off of your personal experience, and, as I've said, it is outdated.

    The incidents you describe can happen anywhere or with anyone. A woman or a man can claim someone came onto them falsely or someone can try to sexually assault someone else. If it were security, as you described, then male visitors wouldn't be allowed either. But it isn't true. I can bring up the rules for several Army bases and their barracks if you wish.

    Hey look I found the Fort Hood policy on it.

    http://www.hood.army.mil/dpw/Housing/Files/CSM-02.pdf

    Would you like other bases?
    From your source:

    As soldiers are assigned to their barracks room area, the chain of command has an inherent responsibility to ensure proper living standards and conditions are maintained. As such, leaders must be involved to the degree necessary. There are no arbitrary limits to this involvement...
    Which means local commands can set whatever barracks regulations and restrictions they want. 99% of the time, battalion commanders will make billets off limits to personel of the opposite gender for safety and security reasons; which will most likely be the case.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  4. #244
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    From your source:



    Which means local commands can set whatever barracks regulations and restrictions they want. 99% of the time, battalion commanders will make billets off limits to personel of the opposite gender for safety and security reasons; which will most likely be the case.
    I have said this whole time that it is based on the commanders' policy, which they set. Even Fort Hood's current policy is that opposite sex visitors are allowed.

    And from my source:

    g. Visitation and Quiet time: With limited restrictions, Soldiers residing in the barracks may have visitors of either gender.

    You want to prove that "99%" thing, feel free. I've proven that it is not true for Fort Hood. That shows that there is at least one Army base (and that happens to be the one we were discussing the most here) allows opposite sex visitors in barracks rooms. Now you need to show that the vast majority of the other Army bases (excluding training commands) restrict them.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  5. #245
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I have said this whole time that it is based on the commanders' policy, which they set. Even Fort Hood's current policy is that opposite sex visitors are allowed.

    And from my source:

    g. Visitation and Quiet time: With limited restrictions, Soldiers residing in the barracks may have visitors of either gender.

    You want to prove that "99%" thing, feel free. I've proven that it is not true for Fort Hood. That shows that there is at least one Army base (and that happens to be the one we were discussing the most here) allows opposite sex visitors in barracks rooms. Now you need to show that the vast majority of the other Army bases (excluding training commands) restrict them.
    A brigade, battalion, or company commander can always upgrade the division commanders orders. Restricting visitation to the barracks, which your source clearly gives latitude to do, would be upgrading the division commander's policy. You're supposed to be in the military; you know that orders, policies and standards can be upgraded, but never downgraded.

    As a member of the service, you should realize the liability that a commander would be opening himself up to, if he allowed females to come and go in t barracks. What if a troop comes out of the shower, dick swingin' and the female visitor sees him? What if she starts screaming sexual harassment, or attempted rape?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  6. #246
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    A brigade, battalion, or company commander can always upgrade the division commanders orders. Restricting visitation to the barracks, which your source clearly gives latitude to do, would be upgrading the division commander's policy. You're supposed to be in the military; you know that orders, policies and standards can be upgraded, but never downgraded.

    As a member of the service, you should realize the liability that a commander would be opening himself up to, if he allowed females to come and go in t barracks. What if a troop comes out of the shower, dick swingin' and the female visitor sees him? What if she starts screaming sexual harassment, or attempted rape?
    What I realize is that you are trying to avoid the point made, that yes, many barracks allow visitors of the opposite sex, even in the Army.

    I've been in. I know what's its like. And these barracks are like two person dorm rooms now (in fact, that is the complete goal of every branch when it comes to berthing for service members, and what I have seen, it is why geobachelors have become basically non-existent, so that barracks rooms only have 1 or 2 people per room). And the policy is that roommates get a say in visitors. So there wouldn't really be an issue of someone dick swingin' in front of a female visitor because he would know she was there to begin with. And if not, and the roommate brought the girl in and his roommate was in the shower or just the head, and she tried to make a claim of rape or sexual harassment with him right there it wouldn't go so well unless the guy bringing the girl in was a complete douche to his roommate to begin with. And it can happen no matter where the person is or what gender. You are trying to find reasons why they don't, and although those have been used in the past for such reasoning, it is not the general policy now for most places because they realize that a policy of not allowing visitors of the opposite sex isn't likely to deter such things from happening in any significant way.

    I was allowed to change into and out of uniform in the same area as the guys I worked with while in the Navy. It wasn't an issue.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #247
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    What I realize is that you are trying to avoid the point made, that yes, many barracks allow visitors of the opposite sex, even in the Army.


    I've been in. I know what's its like. And these barracks are like two person dorm rooms now (in fact, that is the complete goal of every branch when it comes to berthing for service members, and what I have seen, it is why geobachelors have become basically non-existent, so that barracks rooms only have 1 or 2 people per room). And the policy is that roommates get a say in visitors. So there wouldn't really be an issue of someone dick swingin' in front of a female visitor because he would know she was there to begin with. And if not, and the roommate brought the girl in and his roommate was in the shower or just the head, and she tried to make a claim of rape or sexual harassment with him right there it wouldn't go so well unless the guy bringing the girl in was a complete douche to his roommate to begin with. And it can happen no matter where the person is or what gender. You are trying to find reasons why they don't, and although those have been used in the past for such reasoning, it is not the general policy now for most places because they realize that a policy of not allowing visitors of the opposite sex isn't likely to deter such things from happening in any significant way.

    I was allowed to change into and out of uniform in the same area as the guys I worked with while in the Navy. It wasn't an issue.
    Barracks policy at Fort Belvoir; note the bolded section:

    28. Visitors. Overnight guests are not authorized at any time.
    Visitors under the age of 18 are not permitted in individual
    rooms or the barracks area unless they are: (1) visiting a
    family member, or (2) accompanied by an adult member of their
    own family. Visitors are not permitted in individual rooms
    unless in the company of the resident assigned to the room.
    Guests will not infringe on the privacy of the resident’s
    roommate(s). Residents are responsible for the conduct of their
    visitors to include liability for any damages incurred.
    Visitation privileges can be revoked if they are abused.


    http://www.nec.belvoir.army.mil/pubs...Reg/210-13.pdf
    Chances are, visitation privileges have been revoked for years There's NO order or policy that requires visitation by members of the opposite sex to be allowed and in most barracks, it's not allowed.

    You can't allow people to come into the barracks, willy-nilly for security and safety reasons and doing so isn't the norm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  8. #248
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Barracks policy at Fort Belvoir; note the bolded section:

    Chances are, visitation privileges have been revoked for years There's NO order or policy that requires visitation by members of the opposite sex to be allowed and in most barracks, it's not allowed.

    You can't allow people to come into the barracks, willy-nilly for security and safety reasons and doing so isn't the norm.
    You are still grasping here. No one is talking about abusing the policy. And in fact, I've never claimed that visitors of either gender did not have to check in somewhere (I in fact mentioned it before that I had to sign in to go to my husband's barracks when he was still a Marine living on K-Bay, and we were only dating at the time). Nor have I said there is some sort of right to have any visitors. And I've pretty much stated this whole time that most do not allow overnight visitors. So far, you have not proven that most bases barracks (specifically Army) do not allow opposite sex visitors.

    I have said that many bases allow opposite sex visitors to the barracks, that is all. I have not said it can't be revoked or limited or that all places must allow them. I am contending though that the majority of non-training commands have a policy for allowing opposite sex visitors to the barracks and that is why it was strange that a husband would have to sneak his wife into his barracks room (which is strange for a married person to have to begin with on a base in the US).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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