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Thread: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood[W:87, 145]

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood[W:87, 145]

    So...

    Are there any things we can do to prevent the dangerous from doing dangerous things?
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    The memos used in that issue are not conclusive as to what she actually did say to Saddam but they are all in agreement that she didn't say we didn't care about the dispute between Saddam and Kuwait. She said that it didn't involve the USA. It has been speculated that Saddam interpreted that to mean that we would not retaliate if he did invade Kuwait. And, in fact, had he not also been threatening Saudi Arabia at the time, we very well may not have retaliated. Galspie is on the record that she did not think Saddam would overrun Kuwait, and she testified before Congress that, on more than one occasion, she had counseled Saddam not to deal with Kuwait militarily.
    The memos were transcripts of a telegram sent by April Galspie to Saddam. Both transcripts say the US has "no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts". Imo, that leaves little doubt that Galspie told Saddam that the US had "no opinion on Arab-Arab conflict".


    April Glaspie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    "...the transcript has Glaspie saying:

    We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960s, that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America.

    Another version of the transcript (the one published in The New York Times on 23 September 1990) has Glaspie saying:

    But we have no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts, like your border disagreement with Kuwait. I was in the American Embassy in Kuwait during the late 1960s. The instruction we had during this period was that we should express no opinion on this issue and that the issue is not associated with America. James Baker has directed our official spokesmen to emphasize this instruction. We hope you can solve this problem using any suitable methods via Klibi (Chedli Klibi, Secretary General of the Arab League) or via President Mubarak. All that we hope is that these issues are solved quickly....
    "No opinion" could be interpreted as "doesn't care"..."won't interfere"..."won't retaliate"....


    But out of curiosity, what does any of this have to do with the shooter at Fort Hood?
    I dunno. Apacherat might be the best person to ask that question.....

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1063108220

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The memos were transcripts of a telegram sent by April Galspie to Saddam. Both transcripts say the US has "no opinion on the Arab-Arab conflicts". Imo, that leaves little doubt that Galspie told Saddam that the US had "no opinion on Arab-Arab conflict". April Glaspie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "No opinion" could be interpreted as "doesn't care"..."won't interfere"..."won't retaliate".... I dunno. Apacherat might be the best person to ask that question..... http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1063108220
    It was in fact, as I clearly stated, speculated that Saddam interpreted her statements to mean we would not retaliate. From the same source you linked, you'll find references to other documentation that she made it quite clear that we did care and we were interested.

    I don't personally care one way or the other as I think it was absolutely necessary to force Saddam out of Kuwait and prevent him also taking the Saudi oil fields. My interest however, is to see what actually did happen in these things and not allow them to be defined via political spin or the desire of partisans to cast blame and/or condemnation on somebody with 'edited' evidence. Everything that happens isn't because somebody has a D or an R after their name.

    But dragging the train back onto the tracks here, I am equally determined to believe the real story that might be available re the Fort Hood shooter, and not attempt to politicize it by manipulating what is available to know.
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood[W:87, 145]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    So...

    Are there any things we can do to prevent the dangerous from doing dangerous things?
    Arm soldiers; at least allow NCO's and officers to varry sidearms on post.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    It was in fact, as I clearly stated, speculated that Saddam interpreted her statements to mean we would not retaliate. From the same source you linked, you'll find references to other documentation that she made it quite clear that we did care and we were interested.
    Saddam must have believed the US wouldn't retaliate because that was the question that he asked Galspie and her answer was the US had no opinion in the matter. So obviously, he thought the US wouldn't retlatiate based on Galspies response.


    I don't personally care one way or the other as I think it was absolutely necessary to force Saddam out of Kuwait and prevent him also taking the Saudi oil fields. My interest however, is to see what actually did happen in these things and not allow them to be defined via political spin or the desire of partisans to cast blame and/or condemnation on somebody with 'edited' evidence. Everything that happens isn't because somebody has a D or an R after their name.
    The evidence shows that Kuwaite was taking more than their share of oil from the Ramali oil fields that it shared with Iraq and producing more than was allowed under the quota system of OPEC. Kuwaite even admitted it and said they were doing it because they wanted to force Saddam to the negotiating table in order to come to an agreement. That is the cruxt of the dispute between Iraq and Kuwaite. Kuwaite was stealing Iraqs oil in order to force Saddam into an agreement.....

    CONFRONTATION IN THE GULF; The Oilfield Lying Below the Iraq-Kuwait Dispute - New York Times

    But dragging the train back onto the tracks here, I am equally determined to believe the real story that might be available re the Fort Hood shooter, and not attempt to politicize it by manipulating what is available to know.
    No arguement there.
    Last edited by Moot; 04-04-14 at 06:56 PM.

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why would he have to smuggle his wife on base?
    We were on pre-deployment orders, no visitors allowed, no 'family time'.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Where were you stationed?
    Fort Bliss, TX., but we weren't stationed there. We were conducting pre-deployment training.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I know most military bases allow wives on them...
    Not when you're on pre-deployment orders, that's up to the company commander, and ours said 'no'. That didn't stop a certain SGT from smuggling his wife on base anyway.

    Point is smuggling contraband onto a base takes exactly no effort. You're not searched. There's an ID check and that's it. It's simply not possible to search every vehicle coming through without a lock-down, and try conducting business under a lock-down.

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Plus, since this was a military member that was responsible, how would those who are meant to deal with these situations actually know who the initial shooter was and who the people just trying to stop him were? The military cops/sentries/patrols are going to simply shoot whoever has a gun, particularly if they come up to someone shooting another person who is armed, even if the one being shot was the initial shooter.
    Have you never been in a military living situation where everyone is armed? Jesus Christ, in Afghanistan every soldier had a firearm, by order of General Allen, and yet when **** happened no one ever just started shooting wildly like you describe. No, cops/sentries do not just start shooting whoever has a gun. That's just a retarded thing to say.

    We are all armed while deployed, there's no reason to disarm when we comes back.

    Edit:
    I realized you just said you never actually carried a firearm while in the service. Well sir, I have, quite often, and I was constantly surrounded by several other soldiers who were similarly armed. When **** happened, our training kicked in...we called out Description, Direction, Distance and followed 'react to contact' and 'gunnery' protocol. We all worked as one, not as individuals. My military experience is saturated with firearms carried by just about everyone, everywhere we went. I am thus acclimated to and very comfortable with walking among a well armed population.
    Last edited by Jerry; 04-04-14 at 10:17 PM.

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Have you never been in a military living situation where everyone is armed? Jesus Christ, in Afghanistan every soldier had a firearm, by order of General Allen, and yet when **** happened no one ever just started shooting wildly like you describe. No, cops/sentries do not just start shooting whoever has a gun. That's just a retarded thing to say.

    We are all armed while deployed, there's no reason to disarm when we comes back.

    Edit:
    I realized you just said you never actually carried a firearm while in the service. Well sir, I have, quite often, and I was constantly surrounded by several other soldiers who were similarly armed. When **** happened, our training kicked in...we called out Description, Direction, Distance and followed 'react to contact' and 'gunnery' protocol. We all worked as one, not as individuals. My military experience is saturated with firearms carried by just about everyone, everywhere we went. I am thus acclimated to and very comfortable with walking among a well armed population.
    So do you believe that all soldiers on a domestic facility like Ft Hood should be constantly armed?
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    So do you believe that all soldiers on a domestic facility like Ft Hood should be constantly armed?
    Every soldier should have the option of being armed while on or off duty, on or off base, in or out of uniform. This is basic safety.

    That being said, I agree to additional certification to carry on base, because armed personal can be called upon to assist base security and will need to be familiar with certain policies, tactics, and points-of-contact. The base will need to maintain a roster of people who can be called upon for special duty and what assets/training they bring to bear.

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood[W:87, 145]

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Arm soldiers; at least allow NCO's and officers to varry sidearms on post.
    You would actually trust a commissioned officer with a firearm? :P

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