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Thread: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood[W:87, 145]

  1. #201
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Right, Bush ignored Clinton's counter terrorist policies and the country was attacked. The failure was all Bush.
    Horse crap. I worked in both the Clinton and the Bush administrations. Jamie Gorelick-a clinton high level operative-prevented the various intelligence agencies from sharing information. you don't know what you are talking about.



  2. #202
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    You say that like there's anything stopping you from bringing anything on base. There's no TSA search, you just drive up to the guard house, show your ID and then....drive forward....and *poof* your on the base. There's no search. There nothing but an ID check.

    There's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from bringing a firearm on base. Nothing. In fact during my pre-deployment a soldier smuggled his wife on base. He smuggled her the next day, too.

    Just because you make a no-gun rule doesn't mean there's anything in place to enforce it. There's no magic forcefield just because you made a rule.
    Why would he have to smuggle his wife on base? Where were you stationed?

    I know most military bases allow wives on them, and if a person has any military ID they can normally escort others on the base. Heck, they would have let me come on base at K-Bay to see my husband (who was only my fiance at the time) leave for deployment and come back from it, even if I didn't have a military ID.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  3. #203
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Military personnel should be allowed to carry guns when in their bases, if civilians in the state of TX can do it I dont see why men in uniform shouldnt, they are trained to use them more than your ordinary civilian and could have put a stop to his the moment it happened.
    Not all military personnel are trained to use guns though, not in the way most believe. I've never actually held a government issued real weapon. We had laser rifles during my time in bootcamp (they were renovating the actual firing range because of asbestos at the time I went through). And there was no other watches I ever stood that required me to be armed. And they wouldn't know which military members would actually have received that training or when they last received the training.

    Plus, since this was a military member that was responsible, how would those who are meant to deal with these situations actually know who the initial shooter was and who the people just trying to stop him were? The military cops/sentries/patrols are going to simply shoot whoever has a gun, particularly if they come up to someone shooting another person who is armed, even if the one being shot was the initial shooter.

    Allowing military members to carry weapons onbase would definitely not be a good idea. The very fact that we do have armed sentries and patrols onbase would cause bigger problems if others onbase were also armed while not on duty. The response time for military police is going to be much better than in a civilian setting most of the time when there is this sort of incident, just given the closed in space of the bases. Even larger bases would have short response time compared to the civilian world.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #204
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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    I don't disagree with your final point, however, I do disagree with your premise that there is simply nothing that can be done to stop such actions. I don't have answers, however.
    Well if one of your answers would be 'more laws' restricting guns, please think again.

    Laws dont stop the people who choose to break them (cliche I know....). We call them criminals and increasingly, the mentally ill are crossing over that line.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    What can't be prevented is 100% of any incidents. Even condoms fail. Most employees and residents will comply with the no-gun rule because thats the military culture, but there will always be the radical element who chose to quietly disregard the rules, and thats when prevention fails. At that point you need the ability to "react-to-contact".
    What we as a society can do is to return to a culture in which courtesy and consideration for others and manners is the norm. In such a culture, random violence is uncommon. In a culture in which self gratification, violence, rage, anger, coarse and angry language, and antisocial behavior is exalted, violence is going to be more common.

    Buy as you say, in just living our daily lives, we cannot anticipate when the mentally ill or evil person will choose to act in harmful or deadly ways and the only way to avoid or diminish tragedy is an ability to react to the situation and a culture that encourages us to do just that.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why would he have to smuggle his wife on base? Where were you stationed?

    I know most military bases allow wives on them, and if a person has any military ID they can normally escort others on the base. Heck, they would have let me come on base at K-Bay to see my husband (who was only my fiance at the time) leave for deployment and come back from it, even if I didn't have a military ID.
    Probably because je was quartered in the barracks and females weren't allowed in male barracks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Horse crap. I worked in both the Clinton and the Bush administrations. Jamie Gorelick-a clinton high level operative-prevented the various intelligence agencies from sharing information. you don't know what you are talking about.
    Yeah and I'm the Queen of England.


    Jamie Gorelick got her marching orders from the WH.

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Yeah and I'm the Queen of England.


    Jamie Gorelick got her marching orders from the WH.
    OH DEAR you really STEPPED IN IT BIG TIME

    she was only working for the GOVERNMENT DURING THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION

    OOPS

    SO SHE WAS DOING WHAT CLINTON WANTED and the wall of silence persisted through the entire CLINTON ADMINISTRATION and INTO THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION



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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    OH DEAR you really STEPPED IN IT BIG TIME

    she was only working for the GOVERNMENT DURING THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION

    OOPS

    SO SHE WAS DOING WHAT CLINTON WANTED and the wall of silence persisted through the entire CLINTON ADMINISTRATION and INTO THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION
    Right, I got her confused with April Galspie. You remember her, she's the one that told Saddam that the US didn't care about his dispute with Kuwaite....which Saddam intepreted as a green light to do whatever he wanted.

    I fail to see how Jamie Gorlick convinced the new Bush admininstration to ignore Clinton's foreign anti-terrorist policy. Richard Clarke tried his best to convince the Bush administration to take terrorism seriously but obviously they thought they knew better.....and the result was 9/11.


    Bush Administration's First Memo on al-Qaeda Declassified

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    Re: Source: Active shooter at Fort Hood

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Right, I got her confused with April Galspie. You remember her, she's the one that told Saddam that the US didn't care about his dispute with Kuwaite....which Saddam intepreted as a green light to do whatever he wanted.

    I fail to see how Jamie Gorlick convinced the new Bush admininstration to ignore Clinton's foreign anti-terrorist policy. Richard Clarke tried his best to convince the Bush administration to take terrorism seriously but obviously they thought they knew better.....and the result was 9/11.

    Bush Administration's First Memo on al-Qaeda Declassified
    The memos used in that issue are not conclusive as to what she actually did say to Saddam but they are all in agreement that she didn't say we didn't care about the dispute between Saddam and Kuwait. She said that it didn't involve the USA. It has been speculated that Saddam interpreted that to mean that we would not retaliate if he did invade Kuwait. And, in fact, had he not also been threatening Saudi Arabia at the time, we very well may not have retaliated. Galspie is on the record that she did not think Saddam would overrun Kuwait, and she testified before Congress that, on more than one occasion, she had counseled Saddam not to deal with Kuwait militarily.

    But out of curiosity, what does any of this have to do with the shooter at Fort Hood?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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