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Thread: U.S. confirms warrantless searches of Americans

  1. #21
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    Re: U.S. confirms warrantless searches of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Certainly not often enough. Let's just say they don't exist. Why not? Ignoring reality is a great routine and lots of fun, right?
    Why are you pointing out a hypothetical to remove warrants now?


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    Re: U.S. confirms warrantless searches of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    You could say the same about any warrant, and thereby claim no warrants exist at all.

    Why must you ignore reality?
    Yeah, well "law enforcement" will be the first in line to enforce their tyranny - cops are already sadistic psychopaths that enjoy murdering, tasing and beating anyone they deem to be a "bad guy"... Few have any intent with doing their jobs by the book - they're so ****ing lazy they will just disregard the Bill of Rights, snag you off the street then retort back to the old cliche of "tell it to the judge" -- of course they only do that when you exorcize your civil liberties.

  3. #23
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    Re: U.S. confirms warrantless searches of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Why are you pointing out a hypothetical to remove warrants now?
    I'm pointing out how stupid your reasoning is for claiming that warrants are not obtained. You use conspiracy theory to discount the warrants and then claim they don't exist. One could do this with absolutely anything. Why not just accept reality and stop making false claims?

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    Re: U.S. confirms warrantless searches of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm pointing out how stupid your reasoning is for claiming that warrants are not obtained.
    So your saying all warrant processes are rubber stamps?
    Your claiming that the FISA warrant process is fair and just?
    Your claiming that the FISA process is not a rubber stamp?

    You use conspiracy theory to discount the warrants and then claim they don't exist.
    Where did i do this? Please point that out for me.


  5. #25
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    Re: U.S. confirms warrantless searches of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: U.S. confirms warrantless searches of Americans

    A giant collective no **** moment. And hopefully a giant collective "this **** needs to stop ASAP" moment. [/FONT][/COLOR]
    I'm attaching a link that sums up our gov't eavesdropping much more eloquently than I.

    Just Salute and Follow Orders’: When Secrecy and Surveillance Trump the Rule of Law

    "John W. Whitehead
    “The Secret Government is an interlocking network of official functionaries, spies, mercenaries, ex-generals, profiteers and superpatriots, who, for a variety of motives, operate outside the legitimate institutions of government. Presidents have turned to them when they can’t win the support of the Congress or the people, creating that unsupervised power so feared by the framers of our Constitution...”- Journalist Bill Moyers and White House press secretary under President Johnson (1988)

    Question: How can you tell when a politician is lying? Answer: When he’s moving his lips.

    If that didn’t generate a chuckle, how about:

    Q: Why is honesty in politics like oxygen?

    A: The higher you go, the scarcer it gets.

    Then there’s President Obama’s gaffe on the Tonight Show: “We don’t have a domestic spying program,” which is downright laughable in light of this past year’s revelations about domestic spying by the National Security Agency. But if that still doesn’t push you over the edge into near hysterics, here’s one guaranteed to get the biggest laugh of all, at least from those clear-sighted enough to grasp the irony of a politician talking about “trust”:

    “If people can’t trust not only the executive branch but also don’t trust Congress, and don’t trust federal judges, to make sure that we’re abiding by the Constitution with due process and rule of law,” declared President Obama in June 2013, in response to questions about the government’s domestic spying program, “then we’re going to have some problems here.”

    What’s not at all amusing, of course, is the fact that our nation is riddled with all manner of problems, and it’s because we have government officials in the executive branch, Congress, and the courts incapable of abiding by the Constitution. These people have proven time and again that they cannot be trusted to do what they say, and they certainly can’t be trusted to abide by their oaths of office to uphold and defend the Constitution.

    Indeed, the American people have been cheated and lied to for so long that we’ve arrived at a stage of disbelief and skepticism. So when the Obama administration announces that it will be rolling out proposals to rein in the NSA bulk collection of data about Americans’ private communications, you’d be perfectly justified in wondering what other far-fetched schemes they plan to sell you next."

    ‘Just Salute and Follow Orders’: When Secrecy and Surveillance Trump the Rule of Law

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    Re: U.S. confirms warrantless searches of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Where did i do this? Please point that out for me.
    Despite clear evidence of why FISA warrants are rarely rejected (the strict requirements for requesting one), you employ conspiracy theory to discount them and then flat-out claim they don't exist.

    Your argument is no different than a Truther claiming the planes were holograms. Please join us in reality.

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    Re: U.S. confirms warrantless searches of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's nuts, and you're ignoring the other requirements.



    So your tactic here is to deny reality and substitute fantasy?



    The reason requests are rarely rejected is the strict requirements for making the request.



    Black helicopter CT does not substitute for reality.
    1. Why not? When I call the cable company etc. I am warned that the conversation may be monitored. People in the USA tend to assume that they have privacy unless they have specific reason to think otherwise.

    2. We know that the no-fly lists were filled with errors that caused huge hassles for hundreds of people (including me). Many of the Guantanamo prisoners were released due to lack of evidence. Why should we believe that the current secret lists are accurate?

    3. One of the premises of democracy and anti-corruption measures, and a lesson of history, is that politicians and government employees can not be trusted when they act in secret.

    4. Are you denying that "extraordinary rendition" is still being used?

  8. #28
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    Re: U.S. confirms warrantless searches of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    1. Why not? When I call the cable company etc. I am warned that the conversation may be monitored. People in the USA tend to assume that they have privacy unless they have specific reason to think otherwise.
    If one person is out of the country and one is on the Terrorist Watchlist, that person has reason to believe they may be monitored.

    Besides, many monitored calls do not come with warnings. You're confusing a private company with a warranted search.

    2. We know that the no-fly lists were filled with errors that caused huge hassles for hundreds of people (including me). Many of the Guantanamo prisoners were released due to lack of evidence. Why should we believe that the current secret lists are accurate?
    They're accurate enough to warrant taking a look at the conversation. No tap evidence can be used in obtaining the full warrant, if action is taken.

    3. One of the premises of democracy and anti-corruption measures, and a lesson of history, is that politicians and government employees can not be trusted when they act in secret.
    Well, state secrets must exist. That's just reality. Pretending otherwise is unhealthy.

    4. Are you denying that "extraordinary rendition" is still being used?
    Are you going to stay on topic?

  9. #29
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    Re: U.S. confirms warrantless searches of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Despite clear evidence of why FISA warrants are rarely rejected (the strict requirements for requesting one), you employ conspiracy theory to discount them and then flat-out claim they don't exist.
    Did i ever state that they dont exist? No. I said it was rubber stamp. Stop lying.


  10. #30
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    Re: U.S. confirms warrantless searches of Americans

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Did i ever state that they dont exist?
    Yes, clearly.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Still are warrantless.

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