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Thread: Report: North Korea fires on South during North's military exercises

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    Re: Report: North Korea fires on South during North's military exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I thought his Dad looked like one of those Troll Dolls


    Okay, who wins?
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: Report: North Korea fires on South during North's military exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Report: Koreas exchange fire during North's military exercises - CNN.com

    Oh brother, they're at it again.

    The world is turning into a dangerous place, again.

    First Russia, now North Korea.
    When you have weak leadership on display in the United States and all across Europe, it should not come as no surprise to see the leader in North Korea starting some stuff. I bet before Summer, Iran and Syria will be starting some stuff too.

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    Re: Report: North Korea fires on South during North's military exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    When you have weak leadership on display in the United States and all across Europe, it should not come as no surprise to see the leader in North Korea starting some stuff. I bet before Summer, Iran and Syria will be starting some stuff too.
    So basically, in years past, America and European countries kept conflicts tamped down, unless they decided to start a conflict? I think weak leadership is exemplified by N. Korea's actions.

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    Re: Report: North Korea fires on South during North's military exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post


    Okay, who wins?
    When's the bobble head coming out?

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    Re: Report: North Korea fires on South during North's military exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    When you have weak leadership on display in the United States and all across Europe, it should not come as no surprise to see the leader in North Korea starting some stuff. I bet before Summer, Iran and Syria will be starting some stuff too.
    The problem with that narrative is that North Korea has engaged in literally scores of provocative actions from the time Eisenhower was in the White House to today. North Korea is essentially oblivious to the norms of the surrounding world in terms its behavior and whomever occupies the White House or various European capitals does not figure in its calculations. The international community has little appetite for perhaps the only realistic policy alternative e.g., cutting off all forms of assistance, including humanitarian aid (which is largely diverted to the people and institutions that allow the dictatorship in Pyongyang to retain power, that could force the regime to curb its bad conduct. China, on the other hand, also fears a refugee influx should the North Korean dictatorship collapse, hence it continues to supply a level of assistance to reduce the risk of that outcome, even as it has grown more impatient and dissatisfied with North Korea's behavior.

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    Re: Report: North Korea fires on South during North's military exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The problem with that narrative is that North Korea has engaged in literally scores of provocative actions from the time Eisenhower was in the White House to today. North Korea is essentially oblivious to the norms of the surrounding world in terms its behavior and whomever occupies the White House or various European capitals does not figure in its calculations. The international community has little appetite for perhaps the only realistic policy alternative e.g., cutting off all forms of assistance, including humanitarian aid (which is largely diverted to the people and institutions that allow the dictatorship in Pyongyang to retain power, that could force the regime to curb its bad conduct. China, on the other hand, also fears a refugee influx should the North Korean dictatorship collapse, hence it continues to supply a level of assistance to reduce the risk of that outcome, even as it has grown more impatient and dissatisfied with North Korea's behavior.

    Mornin' DS. Recently the North launched off some short range missiles to. But this time.....S. Korea returned fired after shells from the North landed on their side. 3 hrs is quite a bit of time too. This could have escalated into way more than whats here. Moreover the North Tested a Nuke in Feb. Now they are threatening some new form of Nuclear Test. Whatever that means. Plus I think the North had sent someone to China just recently too.



    North and South Korea exchange fire across western sea border.....


    The live-fire exercises were announced by North Korea in a faxed message from its military to the South's navy. South Korea warned of immediate retaliation if any shells crossed the border.

    "Some of [North Korea's] shells landed south of the border during the drill. So our military fired back north of the border in line with ordinary protocol," a defence ministry statement said.

    "The North fired some 500 shots... and some 100 of them landed in waters south of the border," said Defence Ministry spokesman Kim Min-seok.

    The South fired more than 300 rounds in return, he said.

    Residents of a border island, Baengnyeong, were evacuated into shelters during the three-hour incident.



    Over the weekend, North Korea also threatened to conduct a "new form" of nuclear test.

    It has conducted three nuclear tests to date, the most recent in February 2013.....snip~

    BBC News - North and South Korea exchange fire across western sea border


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    Re: Report: North Korea fires on South during North's military exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    Report: Koreas exchange fire during North's military exercises - CNN.com

    Oh brother, they're at it again.

    The world is turning into a dangerous place, again.

    First Russia, now North Korea.
    The world has always been a dangerous place. We were sold a false promise when the Berlin Wall came down, that the "cold" war was over and there was no more nuclear threat. To a degree it was true. But it left the US as a mega power to the super powers of China, Russia, while US allies like Britain and France became lesser powers.

    While the US has been off fighting terrorists China, Russia, Middle East enemies, Korea and many others have been building strength and gaining momentum. With Washington head and heels into a 13 year old war in Afghanistan, she is weakened, and with the serial **** ups like Arab Spring, Israeli 1967 borders, Libya, gun running in Syria, the "red line" and Ukraine, well can anyone blame her enemies for testing for weakness? It sure has worked for Putin, why not follow his lead
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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    Re: Report: North Korea fires on South during North's military exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by AJiveMan View Post
    He does look like Moe from the three stooges.


    In my reading of history, I have always been amused that the American people had so much fun over Hitler's looks, mustache and mannerisms....until he conquered Europe.

    If it were me, and the results of Ukraine/Crimea still unfolding, Afghanistan still raging, Syria etc etc., I would not be dismissing a potential nuclear threat so easily.
    ""You know, when we sell to other countries, even if they're allies -- you never know about an ally. An ally can turn."
    Donald Trump, 11/23/17

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    Re: Report: North Korea fires on South during North's military exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The problem with that narrative is that North Korea has engaged in literally scores of provocative actions from the time Eisenhower was in the White House to today. North Korea is essentially oblivious to the norms of the surrounding world in terms its behavior and whomever occupies the White House or various European capitals does not figure in its calculations. The international community has little appetite for perhaps the only realistic policy alternative e.g., cutting off all forms of assistance, including humanitarian aid (which is largely diverted to the people and institutions that allow the dictatorship in Pyongyang to retain power, that could force the regime to curb its bad conduct. China, on the other hand, also fears a refugee influx should the North Korean dictatorship collapse, hence it continues to supply a level of assistance to reduce the risk of that outcome, even as it has grown more impatient and dissatisfied with North Korea's behavior.
    Yes the way the US and Europe deal with despots is throw money at them, give them a good talking to and time out in the corner. While China fears an influx of refuges, Jordan and Turkey are living the nightmare from those who have fled Syria. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait have become more worried over a nuclear Iran after Kerry's boondoggled negotiations. Not to mention Israel where they are on full alert while also dealing with Hezbolla, Brotherhood, and Hamas, terrorist groups this administration felt a need to reach out to. The weakness Putin sees in Obama, so does every despot in the world.

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    Re: Report: North Korea fires on South during North's military exercises

    Quote Originally Posted by vesper View Post
    Yes the way the US and Europe deal with despots is throw money at them, give them a good talking to and time out in the corner. While China fears an influx of refuges, Jordan and Turkey are living the nightmare from those who have fled Syria. Saudi Arabia, Kuwait have become more worried over a nuclear Iran after Kerry's boondoggled negotiations. Not to mention Israel where they are on full alert while also dealing with Hezbolla, Brotherhood, and Hamas, terrorist groups this administration felt a need to reach out to. The weakness Putin sees in Obama, so does every despot in the world.
    I don't mean to say that perceptions of weakness or actual weakness don't matter in the calculations of leaders. North Korea is, however, a fairly unique case where its threshold for risktaking is abnormally high. Most other countries would expect that the costs of such provocations or at least opportunity costs from foregone benefits would make such provocations unacceptable. However, in Pyongyang, the concept of opportunity costs (foregone economic assistance, foregone benefits from regional stability and cooperation, etc.) are not a part of the regime's calculations. In part, this is because of its ideological commitments to Juche and Songun. Under Kim il-Sung's Juche, North Korea adopted the mentality that it needed to be self-sustaining and dependent on no other state. In reality, that isn't really the case, but the dictatorship believes it is. Hence, with that perspective, the benefits of cooperation and foregone costs for failing to build cooperative relationships are essentially perceived as irrelevant and non-existent. In that context, it is no surprise that North Korea has not found a broad range of proposals that would allow for economic development and large financial assistance sufficiently attractive to shift course. Under Kim Jong-il, North Korea also embraced the idea of Songun, which entails a powerful military-centered society. North Korea believes that the combination of its large conventional forces (even as its weaponry is remarkably dated in some cases), large amount of ammunition, and small (maybe growing) nuclear arsenal provide it with a near absolute security guarantee. Hence, it is willing to engage in all kinds of provocations, sometimes with weaponry, as it feels that it is immune from any meaningful consequences.

    Nevertheless, despite the ideological barriers that preclude fundamental changes in direction in North Korea, the one thing that has sometimes restrained the regime is the temporary cut offs in food and medicine. Unfortunately, the U.S., South Korea, and Japan have not shown much appetite for maintaining a prolonged, multi-year embargo on such assistance. Hence, the assistance is quietly resumed after a pause, and the one strategy that can inflict costs on the dictatorship is brought to an end. Afterward, the stage is set for fresh North Korean provocations.

    Now, I am well aware that some would make the argument that cutting off such aid would impose great hardship on North Korea's people. The reality is that the dictatorship already deprives them of such assistance, diverting a disproportionate share to its troops and others who help it maintain its power. North Korea's largely manmade famine during the 1990s highlights the extent of its willingness to sacrifice its own population for the sake of sustaining the people and institutions that allow Pyongyang's dictatorship to retain power. Hence, the marginal impact of such a decision would fall mostly on the dictatorship and its enablers.

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