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Putin Calls Obama to Discuss Ukraine, White House Says

Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

"Hey Barack, I know I illegally sent troops into Crimea and forced annexation on them, but let's negotiate now that I'm unable to really go any further."

"Vlad, go f*** yourself. The sanctions ain't comin off til you learn your lesson"

The interesting thing about your satirical comment is when all this mess in the Ukraine first started so many folks on the Right ridiculed President Obama for even suggesting that strong economic sanctions on Russia or kicking them out of the G-8 would force Putin to back down and start seeing reason. Any hint at Pres. Obama negotiating with Putin was laughed at. Only a show of decisive military might would force Putin to turn back says those on the Right. The irony is when Sen. Rubio suggested doing much of the exact same things Pres. Obama has done, he was seen as a strong voice within the GOP. I guess what they say is true: If your guy suggest it, it's a winning proposal. If their guy suggest it, it must be condemned at every turn.

Politics....gotta love it! :roll:

Obama obviously scared Putin....


It is a brilliant move by Putin....holding out an olive branch to the Peace Prize recipient.

Show's who's got the moxie on the international scene.

Are you serious? Do you honestly believe Putin's doing this as a display of 1-ups'manship on Pres. Obama? Really? It can't be that both the sanctions and being removed from the G-8 is having an effect on the Russian economy and Putin wants to change course before any more damage is done can it? No! It's got to be all about bravado.:doh
 
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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Well let's hope so. Poland is a done deal. The thing is this, the US has a lot of commitments around the world. Some of that stuff made sense in the post WWII era. It's a good question as to whether we should continue to extend ourselves in this way. For instance, do we really need to be responsible for the defense of Japan. Why can't they do it themselves? Just saying.

It's about U.S. Naval sea power in the Pacific and Japan holding true to their late Emperor's stance for the Japanese people to never again be a warring nation after WWII.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

The Obama administration has already thrown Japan under the bus.

When China established the "East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone" covering most of the sea and the skies over the Japans Senkaku Islands, Obama sent his number one foreign affairs expert, bumbling VP Joe Biden to China to set China straight.

Have no idea if Biden bowed from the waist to the Chinese but Biden made it clear, that the USA would concede and recognize China's "East China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone."

Japan took notice of Obama back in 2009 and recognized that Japan could no longer depend on the USA and have been building up their military. No longer a defense security force but a military that can go on the offense. Japan launched their first aircraft carrier since WW ll just last year.

Was that Japan or China?
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

The interesting thing about your satirical comment is when all this mess in the Ukraine first started so many folks on the Right ridiculed President Obama for even suggesting that strong economic sanctions on Russia or kicking them out of the G-8 would force Putin to back down and start seeing reason. Any hint at Pres. Obama negotiating with Putin was laughed at. Only a show of decisive military might would force Putin to turn back says those on the Right. The irony is when Sen. Rubio suggested doing much of the exact same things Pres. Obama has done, he was seen as a strong voice within the GOP. I guess what they say is true: If your guy suggest it, it's a winning proposal. If their guy suggest it, it must be condemned at every turn.

Politics....gotta love it! :roll:



Are you serious? Do you honestly believe Putin's doing this as a display of 1-ups'manship on Pres. Obama? Really? It can't be that both the sanctions and being removed from the G-8 is having an effect on the Russian economy and Putin wants to change course before any more damage is done can it? No! It's got to be all about bravado.:doh

That's how it's been done for hundreds of years. Theodore Roosevelt called it "Speak softly but carry a big stick." A "big stick" being "Gunboat Diplomacy."

Obama and those incompetent people who he has surrounded himself with are using what is known as "Defense Diplomacy", kinda like what Nevil Chamberlain tried with Hitler. Most pantywaist leaders have always relied on defense diplomacy before getting their butts whooped.

The problem that Obama has created and Putin is well aware of it, Obama has done so much damage to the U.S. military, he can't speak softly and carry a big stick.

Out of the Army's 33 combat brigades only 3 are properly trained and equipped and can be deployed.

1/2 of the Marine Corps isn't properly trained and equipped and can't be deployed. That's if the Navy can put enough amphibious ships to sea but it can't and if it could, only one Marine amphibious brigade could be deployed.

The Navy is in real bad shape. Before 2009 the Navy was able to keep four carrier strike groups at sea in their AOR. Today the Obama administration is only capable of having two CSG at sea while hoping that carriers home ported can surge to any hot spot. But none of the Navy's surge carrier are able to surge. The Obama administration is actually classifying hospital ships and harbor patrol boats as warships to make the Navy's combat force to appear on paper being larger than it really is.

The Air Force isn't doing much better with 1/2 of it's aircraft not being able to fly. Obama has grounded 1/3 of all Air Force squadrons and it would take six months for those pilots to be combat ready if they were allowed to fly . Not to mention the morale problems the Air Force is experiencing with in it's officers corps under the Obama administration.

Putin knows all of this. Just weeks before Russia made their move on Crimea the Russian navy had an intelligence off the east coast snooping and pooping on our military.

Obama's defense diplomacy of sanctions of not allowing Russians to go to the "happiest place on Earth" aka Disneyland only has Putin laughing at Obama and America.
And I don't like being laughed at. The whole world has been laughing at America for the past six years.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Was that Japan or China?

Heya OV. :2wave: Japan.....and it was the 3rd Aircraft Carrier they Launched. They now have a Coast Guard and Navy that is Bigger than the UK.


Japan launches largest warship since World War II

130806184335-01-izumo-horizontal-gallery.jpg


Japan on Tuesday unveiled its largest warship since World War II, an 820-foot-long, 19,500-ton flattop capable of carrying 14 helicopters, according to media reports.

The ship, named the Izumo, is classified as a helicopter destroyer, though its flattop design makes it look like an aircraft carrier.

But the Japanese Defense Ministry says the ship is not intended to be used as an aircraft carrier and will not be used to launch fighter jets, state broadcaster NHK reported.

The launch of the $1.2 billion warship at a Yokohama dockyard comes at a time of increased military tensions between Japan and China over disputed islands in the East China Sea.

"The destroyer is aimed at better responding to various contingencies in waters near Japan," NHK reported.

China on Tuesday warned Japan against any moves of military expansion, according to a report from Global Times.....snip~

Japan launches largest warship since World War II - CNN.com
CNN AUG 2013
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Mornin' T :2wave: .....that what I heard to. Also Lavrov pledged on Television that Russia would not move troops into the Ukraine. He also told people that Russia and the West were moving to closer positions upon the matter.

Putin is calling for the Federalization of the Ukraine.....and also throwing out the condition that Ukraine not join NATO. Which the EU and ourselves won't go for that.

Yeah, Putin wants the USSR back and THE critical country is Ukraine. So he proposes that IF Ukraine agrees to returning to be a satellite country of Russia under Moscow control and if Ukraine won't makes alliances for its own defense from Russia, then he has no reason to invade and declare more of Ukraine to be Russia territory. Rather, it can be its own territory under total Russia control and subservient to Russian government in Moscow. That is how the USSR worked, yes.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Heya OV. :2wave: Japan.....and it was the 3rd Aircraft Carrier they Launched. They now have a Coast Guard and Navy that is Bigger than the UK.


Japan launches largest warship since World War II

130806184335-01-izumo-horizontal-gallery.jpg


Japan on Tuesday unveiled its largest warship since World War II, an 820-foot-long, 19,500-ton flattop capable of carrying 14 helicopters, according to media reports.

The ship, named the Izumo, is classified as a helicopter destroyer, though its flattop design makes it look like an aircraft carrier.

But the Japanese Defense Ministry says the ship is not intended to be used as an aircraft carrier and will not be used to launch fighter jets, state broadcaster NHK reported.

The launch of the $1.2 billion warship at a Yokohama dockyard comes at a time of increased military tensions between Japan and China over disputed islands in the East China Sea.

"The destroyer is aimed at better responding to various contingencies in waters near Japan," NHK reported.

China on Tuesday warned Japan against any moves of military expansion, according to a report from Global Times.....snip~

Japan launches largest warship since World War II - CNN.com
CNN AUG 2013

LOL! Yeah, you definitely need an 820 foot long flat top ship for 14 helicopters. Just because it looks like an aircraft carrier, is built like an aircraft carrier and could function as an aircraft carrier doesn't mean it isn't a helicopter carrier. Helicopters aren't really aircraft and I'm sure they have big letters on the deck reading "NO JUMP JETS ALLOWED!"

Oh, and its definitely not a military ship. It is a civil defense ship, just part of their federal police force. You know, they have a constitutional restriction to stay within. :lol:

Japan better keep up the military construction. There's not a chance in hell we'd honor any defense treaties with them if it came to it. We should tell Germany to spend their own damn money for defense too. Don't look to us anymore.
 
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Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Was that Japan or China?

It was Japan.

2445_5243826d57697-386x275.jpg

Japan's Izumo-class carrier.

The destroyer in the background is of the Murasame class.

The worlds navies are waiting to see if Japan will be deploying F-35 B's on the Izumo.

It's about time that Japan starts taking more responsibility of it's own national defense. But if Japan returns to the Bushido ways of the past, lets hope they are on our side.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

It was Japan.

View attachment 67164113

Japan's Izumo-class carrier.

The destroyer in the background is of the Murasame class.

The worlds navies are waiting to see if Japan will be deploying F-35 B's on the Izumo.

It's about time that Japan starts taking more responsibility of it's own national defense. But if Japan returns to the Bushido ways of the past, lets hope they are on our side.

The Japanese culture historically is one of extreme collective subservience to the culture itself. They are a people that historically can nearly all be made to move collectively in the same direction to the same goal with total devotion. That has always made them a very potent military power and, when relevant, industrial power.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Clearly, Putin is in his element, and making all the right moves.

Poor B'rack is getting embarrassed at every turn.

Nonsense.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

LOL! Yeah, you definitely need an 820 foot long flat top ship for 14 helicopters. Just because it looks like an aircraft carrier, is built like an aircraft carrier and could function as an aircraft carrier doesn't mean it isn't a helicopter carrier. Helicopters aren't really aircraft and I'm sure they have big letters on the deck reading "NO JUMP JETS ALLOWED!"

Oh, and its definitely not a military ship. It is a civil defense ship, just part of their federal police force. You know, they have a constitutional restriction to stay within. :lol:

Japan better keep up the military construction. There's not a chance in hell we'd honor any defense treaties with them if it came to it. We should tell Germany to spend their own damn money for defense too. Don't look to us anymore.

No jump jets allowed " Who says ?

Carriers can be used for certain missions. Like China's carriers. No one knows how China will use it's carriers. Sea lane control, ASW, strike, surface warfare, AA ? Nobody knows.

>" China’s Defense Ministry said, “We are concerned over Japan's constant expansion of its military equipment. Japan's Asian neighbors and the international community need to be highly vigilant about this trend. Japan should learn from history, adhere to its policy of self-defense and abide by its promise to take the road of peaceful development.”

Li Daguang, a professor at the PLA’s National Defense University, similarly called the vessel an “aircraft carrier in disguise.”

Japan’s pacifist constitution would seemingly prohibit it from operating aircraft carriers. However, Li is not alone in having these suspicions. Commentators have been warning for years that this is a destroyer in name only and is built so that it is could theoretically later be equipped with combat aircraft such as the F-35B, the short takeoff and vertical landing variant of the Joint Strike Fighter."<

Japan

BTW: Janes has classified it as an aircraft carrier.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

The Japanese culture historically is one of extreme collective subservience to the culture itself. They are a people that historically can nearly all be made to move collectively in the same direction to the same goal with total devotion. That has always made them a very potent military power and, when relevant, industrial power.



Hey Joko :2wave:

The Japanese have always been warriors.

Most of Northern and Central Europe including Russia have been nations of warriors.

America has always been a nation of warriors but that could be changing with the changing demographics taking place in America today along with putting ******s in the White House.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

LOL! Yeah, you definitely need an 820 foot long flat top ship for 14 helicopters. Just because it looks like an aircraft carrier, is built like an aircraft carrier and could function as an aircraft carrier doesn't mean it isn't a helicopter carrier. Helicopters aren't really aircraft and I'm sure they have big letters on the deck reading "NO JUMP JETS ALLOWED!"

Oh, and its definitely not a military ship. It is a civil defense ship, just part of their federal police force. You know, they have a constitutional restriction to stay within. :lol:

Japan better keep up the military construction. There's not a chance in hell we'd honor any defense treaties with them if it came to it. We should tell Germany to spend their own damn money for defense too. Don't look to us anymore.



Yeah, and Helicopters also do what? That's Right.....Sub Huntin'. Now you can understand why the Chinese are bit concerned. ;)


Biggest Japanese Warship Since WWII Will Carry Helicopters, No Planes

Because Japan's constitution prohibits it from building up a military beyond what's necessary for self-defense, the country is referring to its new helicopter carrier as a "helicopter destroyer" (carrier ships are capable of attacking coastal cities; destroyers are limited to fighting at sea).

Izumo is larger and can carry three more helicopters than the Hyuga-class helicopter destroyers, the previous largest ships in Japan's fleet. For comparison, both are only a fraction of the size of a fully loaded American Nimitz-class carrier, which weighs in a 97,000 tons.

The Izumo's ability to transport helicopters quickly over water will be crucial to rescue missions and disaster relief. But that doesn't mean the Izumo lacks military capability, as helicopters are useful for anti-submarine warfare and bring great surveillance powers to Japan's military.

Of course, helicopters aren't what make this news, really. There's one fighter currently in production that might work from a helicopter carrier, and that possibility is getting a lot of attention from people worried about strained relations between Japan and China. The big question about the Izumo is whether or not it can carry the vertical takeoff and landing (VTOL) variant of the F-35B Joint Strike Fighter.....snip~

Biggest Japanese Warship Since WWII Will Carry Helicopters, No Planes | Popular Science


Which just like the US.....they have already started to reinforce the decking.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

September 30, 1938

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

You mean the GOP is embarrassing themselves at every turn singing Putin's praises.
Any substantial reason for the GOP House delaying Ukraine aid for another week?
Putin/GOP 2016
Clearly, Putin is in his element, and making all the right moves.

Poor B'rack is getting embarrassed at every turn.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

America has always been a nation of warriors but that could be changing with the changing demographics taking place in America today along with putting ******s in the White House.

You mean Bush and Cheney who dodged the War you went to?
Redirect your anger .
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

You mean Bush and Cheney who dodged the War you went to?
Redirect your anger .

What the **** does Bush and Cheney have to do with any of this? furthermore, I could say the same thing just about every democrat/progressive that was of age during the Vietnam war.

Funny how you randomly picked Bush and Cheney when you could have said Kerry or Clinton.

Besides the marquee progressives of today were nothing more than draft dodgers anyways - go see the SDS or Weather Underground about that. They made draft dodging a hobby.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Obama has nothing to negotiate with. Putin holds all the cards. Putin is going to tell Obama what he wants and Obama is going to give it to him.

"Hello Barrack, hey I was just thinking and I have an idea of how you can save face. I'll keep Crimea and not take over the Ukraine and then you can tell everyone that your tough talk made me back down. That way I get what I want (Crimea) and you get what you want (not having to do anything). Deal?"
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Hi F&L,
I think the EU had their eyes on the Ukraine for a lot of reasons, some legit some not so much. But I also think our government has had way too much involvement in this whole ordeal. You know if the EU really wants something, you would think they would at least beef up their military beforehand or at least the ruling class would cough up the needed dough. Not one country in the EU has a decent military force at present. I just read that Japan's Coast Guard is larger than the UK's military. They can't afford one because they are up to their eyeballs in debt providing that socialist dream to everyone. Countries are also being overrun by Islamists. Places like the UK and France are having a hell of a time with uprisings and they can't sufficiently deal with let alone defend themselves of an invasion. And before Obama is out of power our military will be well on its way looking much like any country in Europe. So if things continue on the course they have been, Europe (or a good portion of it) has a good chance of being ruled by heads, Imperial Russia or tails Imperial Islam if they don't get their **** together. Because the way things are going in this country, we aren't going to be able to nor do I think the people have the stomach to spill blood for them anytime soon. After all, under Obama we have been slowly pulling back our troops in the region and downsizing our own capability.

Why I think that after a few changes (see proposal in signature) the EU should be a nation. The army would then be strong and we might have a chance to defend ourselves against Russia and China.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Heya OV. :2wave: Japan.....and it was the 3rd Aircraft Carrier they Launched. They now have a Coast Guard and Navy that is Bigger than the UK.


Japan launches largest warship since World War II

130806184335-01-izumo-horizontal-gallery.jpg


Japan on Tuesday unveiled its largest warship since World War II, an 820-foot-long, 19,500-ton flattop capable of carrying 14 helicopters, according to media reports.

The ship, named the Izumo, is classified as a helicopter destroyer, though its flattop design makes it look like an aircraft carrier.

But the Japanese Defense Ministry says the ship is not intended to be used as an aircraft carrier and will not be used to launch fighter jets, state broadcaster NHK reported.

The launch of the $1.2 billion warship at a Yokohama dockyard comes at a time of increased military tensions between Japan and China over disputed islands in the East China Sea.

"The destroyer is aimed at better responding to various contingencies in waters near Japan," NHK reported.

China on Tuesday warned Japan against any moves of military expansion, according to a report from Global Times.....snip~

Japan launches largest warship since World War II - CNN.com
CNN AUG 2013
I'm aware that it is was Japan who launched their 3rd aircraft carrier since WWII, but Apacherat claimed it was their first. I just wanted him to go back and research the matter further.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

It was Japan.

View attachment 67164113

Japan's Izumo-class carrier.

The destroyer in the background is of the Murasame class.

The worlds navies are waiting to see if Japan will be deploying F-35 B's on the Izumo.

It's about time that Japan starts taking more responsibility of it's own national defense. But if Japan returns to the Bushido ways of the past, lets hope they are on our side.

You are correct in that Japan did launch an aircraft carrier last year, but it wasn't their first since WWII. The largest such vessel since then, but certainly not their first. In fact, this carrier makes it their 3rd since WWII.

LOL! Yeah, you definitely need an 820 foot long flat top ship for 14 helicopters. Just because it looks like an aircraft carrier, is built like an aircraft carrier and could function as an aircraft carrier doesn't mean it isn't a helicopter carrier. Helicopters aren't really aircraft and I'm sure they have big letters on the deck reading "NO JUMP JETS ALLOWED!"

Oh, and its definitely not a military ship. It is a civil defense ship, just part of their federal police force. You know, they have a constitutional restriction to stay within. :lol:

Japan better keep up the military construction. There's not a chance in hell we'd honor any defense treaties with them if it came to it. We should tell Germany to spend their own damn money for defense too. Don't look to us anymore.

I agree with you that a helo carrier is in no way as formidable as an aircraft carrier, but I wouldn't discount their contribution to the fight. I've served onboard both (USS New Orleans LPH-11 and USS America CV-66) and both packed a pretty good punch for their class of ship.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Obama has nothing to negotiate with. Putin holds all the cards. Putin is going to tell Obama what he wants and Obama is going to give it to him.

Right...that's why Sen. Rubio went to CPAC making very similar threats and suggesting the exact same sanction that Pres. Obama has put in place. Only when a Democrat President says it or does such things and brings the negotiators to the table, such actions are viewed as weak. But when a Republic suggests it, he's the strong defender of our nation talking tough and having the balls to back it up with military power.

You guys crack me up! :lamo

IMO, there have only been three U.S. Presidents since WWII who have used military power effectively and decisively:

FDR - WWII

GHWB - Desert Storm

Clinton - Kosevo

The rest, including President Obama, really don't score as well in my book.

Note: I give Obama a C+ only because of how he's been using our Special Forces more effectively, but as a whole it's difficult to gauge his effectiveness as CinC mainly because of the mess he inherited and having to change direction in the middle of both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Speak softly, but carry a big stick.

The problem is, Obama carries no stick. And Putin knows it.
 
Re: Putin Calls Obama...Maybe we can work things out?

Right...that's why Sen. Rubio went to CPAC making very similar threats and suggesting the exact same sanction that Pres. Obama has put in place. Only when a Democrat President says it or does such things and brings the negotiators to the table, such actions are viewed as weak. But when a Republic suggests it, he's the strong defender of our nation talking tough and having the balls to back it up with military power.

You guys crack me up! :lamo

IMO, there have only been three U.S. Presidents since WWII who have used military power effectively and decisively:

FDR - WWII

GHWB - Desert Storm

Clinton - Kosevo

The rest, including President Obama, really don't score as well in my book.

Note: I give Obama a C+ only because of how he's been using our Special Forces more effectively, but as a whole it's difficult to gauge his effectiveness as CinC mainly because of the mess he inherited and having to change direction in the middle of both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Oh yeah! The One can't perform to his full potetial because he inerited a mess. And WE crack YOU up?

I have to ask...AGAIN...why do you believe that the only two options are to take a military response completely off the table and total war? Are you capable of discussing any option in between?
 
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