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Thread: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

  1. #21
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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Don't believe that baloney. The interest rates on the bonds may have gone down, but unemployment in Greece is higher than it was in 2012. And that's the official figures. There's no telling how high it really is. What kind of amazing recovery is that? You can't expect there to be a recovery when people don't have money. When they start giving people work, then you will see a recovery. All the EU has done is to come in and take everything that was of value from the people in Greece and give it to the wealthy financial interests. After they have taken all that is of value in Greece, and after they have taken all the bailout money, then they will start giving people work again. Only then will there be a real recovery.

    Greek unemployment rises to 27.5 percent - Europe news - Boston.com

    Official figures show the unemployment rate in Greece increased to 27.5 percent in the fourth quarter of 2013 as the economy struggled to emerge from a protracted recession.

    Thursday’s figures from the statistics agency showed the jobless rate increasing from 27 percent in the third quarter of 2013 and from 26 percent in the same three months of 2012.

    Greece, a country of about 10 million people, has 1.36 million people out of work, the figures showed. Young people are the most severely affected, with 57 percent of those aged 15-24 jobless.

    Greece, which has been affected by a financial crisis since late 2009, depends on rescue loans from the International Monetary Fund and other European countries. In return, it has had to impose deep spending cuts and tax increases.
    Yep, that's an amazing recovery.

  2. #22
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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    We see how it has worked in Greece. A developed nation with very low unemployment, relatively stable governance, and minimal unrest was bumped down to "developing status" while seeing significant political instability as social unrest rose with the far-right capitalizing on the loss of trust. In exchange for all that, they are more burdened by debt than ever before with foreign companies looking to pick their carcass and we still cannot be sure they are out of it. For Ukraine, Greek-style austerity is essentially a death sentence. That country cannot survive the kind of crippling economic pain and social unrest that accompanies such policies. Of course, it can't survive default for much the same reason. What I am saying, I suppose, is that Ukraine is totally screwed.
    There won't be a recovery as long as people don't have work, that's the bottom line. How can the economy expand when you put people out of work? It makes no sense. What they will do is use Greek debt as an excuse to go in and take everything of value in Greece and give it to the private sector for far less than it's really worth. They will cut peoples pensions to practically nothing, so that takes money out of the economy. Then they cut the jobs of government workers, so that takes money out of the economy. They make the government run on bare bones. That's so the bailout money will go to the bondholders and not the people of Greece. The effect of all that is to contract the economy. Then once the bondholders are paid off and they have taken everything of value from the people of Greece, then they will start to give people work again. At that time they will say, "look it's a miracle." Yeah, it's a miracle alright. It's a miracle people believe that baloney. The thing is this, the recovery could have been accomplished without all that misery in the first place by making sure that people had work.

  3. #23
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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Greece is recovering almost entirely off the backs of two sectors: tourism and shipping. The former was hit heavily during the crisis, while the latter was only marginally impacted by the global decline. None of that is a result of austerity. Europe's bailout allowed their economy to remain in tact so that those sectors could begin to pull them out of the fire as bailout economics the world over allowed the formation of a new bubble. Ukraine does not have the kind of fundamentals that would allow such a bounce, even if one presumed that global bailout economics persists without incident for another five years.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    They have a bigger problem.

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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Greece is recovering almost entirely off the backs of two sectors: tourism and shipping.
    I think the notion that Greece is recovering is propaganda. Unemployment is higher that 2012.

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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Is anyone here actually naive enough to believe that anything but a small fraction of that $18 billion will actually make it into the masses hands? I would hope not. Imo, it will mostly end up in the hands of corrupt politicians/bureaucrats and corporate heads pockets.
    You NEVER, EVER give cash to a country...you give them emergency supplies or you forgive loans..but you never give cash.


    Btw, ALL of this could have been avoided if the coup had not taken place. They could have waited a few years and legally and democratically booted their corrupt leader out of office.
    Right now, Russia would still be providing heavily subsidized fuels/gas, the Crimea would still be part of the Ukraine and all those dozens of protesters/police would probably still be alive.

  7. #27
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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Greece is recovering almost entirely off the backs of two sectors: tourism and shipping. The former was hit heavily during the crisis, while the latter was only marginally impacted by the global decline. None of that is a result of austerity. Europe's bailout allowed their economy to remain in tact so that those sectors could begin to pull them out of the fire as bailout economics the world over allowed the formation of a new bubble. Ukraine does not have the kind of fundamentals that would allow such a bounce, even if one presumed that global bailout economics persists without incident for another five years.
    I suspect that you didnt read the article. "So it’s not all good news out of Greece."

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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Quote Originally Posted by FreedomFromAll View Post
    I suspect that you didnt read the article. "So it’s not all good news out of Greece."
    What do you expect me to get out of that statement? Greece is not seeing a chance at recovery due to austerity, assuming a recovery actually materializes. A large amount of their economic pain was the result of austerity. Only by bailing out the Greek government and the Greek banking system did Europe prevent a total collapse. For a developed economy that is a pretty far fall. Ukraine is not a developed country and has less fundamental strength. Pursuing austerity in Ukraine will lead to a severe recession and it will probably also mean significant social unrest. The current political climate means austerity-induced unrest will likely devolve into full-on civil war soon afterwards.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Greece may have been better off rejecting the bailout and leaving the EU. Greece could have simply defaulted on it's debt and offered some sort of debt restructuring like Argentina did.

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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    I was going over what has happened in Ukraine since it left the Soviet Union. It appears that Ukraine was doing quite well and was actually called the breadbasket of the Soviet Union, until it split from the Soviet Union and the IMF got involved. It has especially gone down since IMF involvement.

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