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Thread: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    No it's not the way to go, and Greece is a good example. You can't get an economy going if people don't have money to spend.
    Well, it worked for Poland. I'm philosophically against the whole "join the western behemoth or the soviet behemoth" mentality but one is clearer better for a country than the other.

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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Basically the money is really going to Russia for gas, not Ukrainians. What Ukrainians get is the debt and having to pay interest on it.

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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    As the video above explains, the loan will not help Ukrainians. The money will go to Russia for gas. To repay the loan and interest, basically everything in Ukraine will be take by foreign business interests.

    Here is an example:

    http://www.newser.com/story/174729/c...f-ukraine.html

    China "bought" 7,400,000 acres of Ukraine. 9% of Ukraine's agricultural land and 5% of the total country. China paid $2.6 billion for it, which went to Russia for gas. Now that land is gone from Ukrainians. They will have to hope to get jobs as laborers for China with the profits all going to China.

    The $18 billion isn't a loan. It is buying Ukraine - with the money going to Russia, not Ukrainians. Basically, IEF is buying Ukraine from Russia - and demanding that Ukrainians pay it.

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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    I've been saying this for a while now.. Ukrainians are screwed. They will be the slaves of Western Europe and they don't even fully realize it.

    Already, as in announced today, energy prices in the Ukraine are gonna rise 50% this year and by 2017 will rise close to 200% as the EU and IMF are forcing the Ukrainian Government to get ride of their subsidy to it's citizens. So now they will be paying market rates. On top of that, the Ukrainian Government is going to limit the amount buying of foreign currencies one can do to $13,000 a month.

    There will be more riots.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    Well, it worked for Poland. I'm philosophically against the whole "join the western behemoth or the soviet behemoth" mentality but one is clearer better for a country than the other.
    If you look at Greece unemployment is 24 percent. Spain is 25 percent. You don't jump start an economy by taking money away from people. How is the economy supposed to grow when people have less money?

    As the video I posted stated, Poland was different. One third of Poland had been a part of Germany so there was a lot of German investment there to stimulate growth. Poland was also offered grants of money, not just loans. That would stimulate growth. And the conditions for the aid were different. So there is no comparison.

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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Quote Originally Posted by joko104 View Post
    As the video above explains, the loan will not help Ukrainians. The money will go to Russia for gas. To repay the loan and interest, basically everything in Ukraine will be take by foreign business interests.

    Here is an example:

    China Buys 7.4M Acres of Ukraine - Will farm an area roughly the size of Massachusetts

    China "bought" 7,400,000 acres of Ukraine. 9% of Ukraine's agricultural land and 5% of the total country. China paid $2.6 billion for it, which went to Russia for gas. Now that land is gone from Ukrainians. They will have to hope to get jobs as laborers for China with the profits all going to China.

    The $18 billion isn't a loan. It is buying Ukraine - with the money going to Russia, not Ukrainians. Basically, IEF is buying Ukraine from Russia - and demanding that Ukrainians pay it.
    Russia will get some of it, no doubt. They are saying that Ukraine now owes them for the subsidies they were given. So they definitely want a chunk. You can be sure that the bondholders will get a good share too. That's how they did it in Greece. Essentially the bailout money went to pay the European bond holders. It's interesting to note that in that case, Russians had lots of money in Greek bank accounts. The banks essentially stole the Russian depositors money to pay their debts. It was rather amazing! Imagine going to the bank and the bank telling you that sorry, you don't have any money because we used it to pay other debts. That must have pissed some people off big time.

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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainman05 View Post
    ... So you are saying stuff but you aren't thinking about what you're saying. Ukraine's new govt started with a substantial deficit since the previous administration plundered a lot of the public funds and also borrowed a lot. With this situation at hand, plus all the stuff with russia, Ukriane needs a loan to keep going and the EU by means of the IMF has provided this loan. Ukraine is in a tough spot from all points of view. And yes, austerity is the way to go, cut down spending, rebuild the state from the ground up, get rid of corruption and let the free market fill in the cracks as much as possible. After this whole thing blows over, Ukraine will be a very tempting country for foreign investment since it's underdeveloped, it has a huge potential from the human resource perspective and there is a lot of improvements to be done. Smart investors will know how to seek opportunities and rebuild the economy. But it needs to survive till may, till after the elections without getting into more of a crisis.
    We see how it has worked in Greece. A developed nation with very low unemployment, relatively stable governance, and minimal unrest was bumped down to "developing status" while seeing significant political instability as social unrest rose with the far-right capitalizing on the loss of trust. In exchange for all that, they are more burdened by debt than ever before with foreign companies looking to pick their carcass and we still cannot be sure they are out of it. For Ukraine, Greek-style austerity is essentially a death sentence. That country cannot survive the kind of crippling economic pain and social unrest that accompanies such policies. Of course, it can't survive default for much the same reason. What I am saying, I suppose, is that Ukraine is totally screwed.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    We see how it has worked in Greece. A developed nation with very low unemployment, relatively stable governance, and minimal unrest was bumped down to "developing status" while seeing significant political instability as social unrest rose with the far-right capitalizing on the loss of trust. In exchange for all that, they are more burdened by debt than ever before with foreign companies looking to pick their carcass and we still cannot be sure they are out of it. For Ukraine, Greek-style austerity is essentially a death sentence. That country cannot survive the kind of crippling economic pain and social unrest that accompanies such policies. Of course, it can't survive default for much the same reason. What I am saying, I suppose, is that Ukraine is totally screwed.
    Yes, most don't understand that when the IMF get involved it goes from bad to doomsday for many. What the IMF is asking for will devastate every Ukrainian. Imagine your heating bills and electric bills going up 50% overnight.. then imagine an increase of 200% in 3 years. Whatever funds are available to Ukrainians in consumer spending will be gone.

    Ukraine had other options that were ignored. If Ukraine truly wants to be part of the EU... it needed to take that Russian money and gas deal and spent the next 3-5 years getting itself straight. Then gone to the Russians and EU and said let's make Ukraine a dual trade zone. Then after Putin died lay out another plan of leaving Russia trade zone. So you'd have about 20 years of stability and possible growth without massive cuts.
    Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats. It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office. H.L Mencken

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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    As the US House delays Ukraine aid for another week. Seems Putin is playing chess with the GOP obstructionists .
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    Re: IMF pledges Ukraine $18B as PM Arseniy Yatsenyuk warns nation on "brink"

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    No it's not the way to go, and Greece is a good example. You can't get an economy going if people don't have money to spend.
    Yasou: Greece Is Pulling Off an Amazing Recovery - Businessweek

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