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Thread: UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid

  1. #41
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    Re: UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    it wasn't a rebuttal...I don't have enough respect for that guy on this subject to waste my time with a proper 'rebuttal'. It was a 'whatever'.


    Also, so where is your link to factual, unbiased proof that those troops had zero influence on those votes in those other countries?

    If you are saying that Iraqi's or Afghani's were not in any meaningful way influenced by their countries crawling with foreign troops (with their leader's own agenda's) then you are very naive, IMO.

    Also, those Russian troops were not all over the Crimea. They were in and around their Black Sea naval base. Sure, there were other troops in key locations that people assume were masked Russian troops...but there is no proof of that. Evidence, yes...proof, no.

    Besides, the polls long before the whole mess began were - to my knowledge - for rejoining Russia.

    Which would you rather be a part of...a country that is broke that is falling into apparent chaos that just erased Russian language as an officially recognized language (Ukraine) or a politically stable (though quite corrupt), financially much more secure nation that many of your descendants came from (Russia)?

    The answer is obvious.


    Anyway, this is all moot...I don't really care what people 'feel' about this. I have an opinion and so do they...why waste time debating it? I doubt I will change their minds and the same goes for me...so why bother? I am really just interested in facts.

    All I want to know - and I still have not got an answer - is what was the official UN reason for their decision?

    Not theories or guesses..the OFFICIAL reason.
    If having American troops in Afghanistan coerced the Afghanis into voting against their will then that is a shame. Though, having elected a president (Karzai) who openly attacks America on frequent occasion, such a claim seems to me dubious at best.

    But there is, of course, a huge distinction between political coercion leading to inept governance, and annexation of the entire country, which is what Russia just did. To treat the two as the same, is misguided I believe.

    FWIW, I am not a neo-con and still disagree with the invasion of Afghanistan.

  2. #42
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    Re: UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid

    Quote Originally Posted by StringBean View Post
    If having American troops in Afghanistan coerced the Afghanis into voting against their will then that is a shame. Though, having elected a president (Karzai) who openly attacks America on frequent occasion, such a claim seems to me dubious at best.

    But there is, of course, a huge distinction between political coercion leading to inept governance, and annexation of the entire country, which is what Russia just did. To treat the two as the same, is misguided I believe.

    FWIW, I am not a neo-con and still disagree with the invasion of Afghanistan.
    With respect, you do realize that Karsai was, in essence, an American puppet...he owed his power and his life to America? Of course he is now attacking the UN/America. He has to. They are leaving, his source of power and security is going and he needs to be seen as more then just a U.S. puppet. At least that is what I think.

    Gwynne Dyer: Mission not accomplished in Afghanistan | Georgia Straight, Vancouver's News & Entertainment Weekly


    Btw, I am not pro-Russia...and I think Putin is a pig. A smart pig, but a pig.

    But, although the Crimea referendum was far from ideal...I feel that (under the circumstances) it was more-or-less as fair as it was going to be. And I find it hypocritical of the West that they freely recognize an illegal coup in Kiev but choose to ignore a semi-legal referendum in the Crimea. The reason should be obvious, the coup in Ukraine was pro West...the referendum in the Crimea was not.
    I think if the reverse was true, they would be condemning the 'violent, illegal overthrow of a legally elected government' in Kiev and supporting 'the will of the people' in the Crimea.

    I think that another concern of the West is that these leaders don't like the idea of regions/states/provinces suddenly holding referendum's and leaving. I think it scares them as it sets a bad precedence...if it can happen in Ukraine, why not else where?
    Last edited by DA60; 04-12-14 at 02:32 PM.

  3. #43
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    Re: UN Assembly declares Crimea referendum invalid

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    But, although the Crimea referendum was far from ideal...I feel that (under the circumstances) it was more-or-less as fair as it was going to be. And I find it hypocritical of the West that they freely recognize an illegal coup in Kiev but choose to ignore a semi-legal referendum in the Crimea. The reason should be obvious, the coup in Ukraine was pro West...the referendum in the Crimea was not.
    I think if the reverse was true, they would be condemning the 'violent, illegal overthrow of a legally elected government' in Kiev and supporting 'the will of the people' in the Crimea.
    The major difference here is that it is the Ukrainian who rose up against the corrupt president and it is no one's business but their own. Having the Russian military supervise a referendum on foreign territory is hardly similar whatsoever. Interesting to note that the old Commie, Gwynne Dyer, is still around.

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