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Thread: Obamacare tops 6 million signups [W:263:617]

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    re: Obamacare tops 6 million signups [W:263]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    You lied
    And yet you still fail at showing everyone what the real number is. The lie is all on you. Back to the cellar with ya.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    re: Obamacare tops 6 million signups [W:263]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    And yet you still fail at showing everyone what the real number is. The lie is all on you. Back to the cellar with ya.
    I made no claim about the #. You however, made a claim about how ACA was supposed to cover 48 million uninsured, and then denied saying that.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    re: Obamacare tops 6 million signups [W:263]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    You want yet MORE bad ideas from politicians? Not me... less the better.
    Unfortunately, we have no other way to change healthcare, except by free markets and that hasn't been working well for average people.


    The ACA affected every citizen of the U.S., there were 2000+ pages of requirements in the law, for hospitals, insurance providers.... you were unaware of this?
    If you make a few adjustments to something as complicated as the medical insurance system, they'll do end runs around it. The ACA is far from the plan it still needs to be. All I see are Republican obstructionists and doom sayers for purely political reasons.


    They wanted to amend the bill before it passed yes - amending a bill is easier than amending a law. You can't be new to the political process at the federal level so I must assume your post is either obtuse or just kidding.
    Why is amending a bill easier? It's almost impossible to foresee all the problems that might occur with a large bill. I seriously think the conservatives would rather see the system collapse than have the ACA be a success and help people.

    If Obamacare is so bad, you should be ecstatic for the Republican party, if that's who you support? They'll sweep the House, Senate and Presidency, when people see how bad the Dems have treated them.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    re: Obamacare tops 6 million signups [W:263]

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Unfortunately, we have no other way to change healthcare, except by free markets and that hasn't been working well for average people.




    If you make a few adjustments to something as complicated as the medical insurance system, they'll do end runs around it. The ACA is far from the plan it still needs to be. All I see are Republican obstructionists and doom sayers for purely political reasons.




    Why is amending a bill easier? It's almost impossible to foresee all the problems that might occur with a large bill. I seriously think the conservatives would rather see the system collapse than have the ACA be a success and help people.

    If Obamacare is so bad, you should be ecstatic for the Republican party, if that's who you support? They'll sweep the House, Senate and Presidency, when people see how bad the Dems have treated them.
    I'm a conservative and I'd love to see people get helped. But all people, not just the poor. Healthcare costs are way too high for most of us and it's eating up a substantial portions of our incomes. This bill didn't fix that problem.

    The GOP isn't going to sweep anything. They will retain control of the House and probably pick up a few seats in the Senate. POTUS is too far away to consider.

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    re: Obamacare tops 6 million signups [W:263]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I'm a conservative and I'd love to see people get helped. But all people, not just the poor. Healthcare costs are way too high for most of us and it's eating up a substantial portions of our incomes. This bill didn't fix that problem.

    The GOP isn't going to sweep anything. They will retain control of the House and probably pick up a few seats in the Senate. POTUS is too far away to consider.
    I'll agree that there are provisions that are not fair to those who make more. And I don't agree with it but the less fortunate, literally, can't pay more. It's not just healthcare that's too high, it's the insurance paid for coverage. This bill addressed certain aspects of insurance companies denying preexisting conditions, capping limits and dropping coverage, so it's not all bad.

    I seriously don't think it matters if the GOP or Dems control the gov, because it's the same bunch of malfunctioning idealism and bureaucracy.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    re: Obamacare tops 6 million signups [W:263]

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    1) They're not available

    2) No, that's not true because the #'s in the chart are not all "as of" now. And I don't know where or how you came up with 5.1 million
    So your argument is that we shouldn't take your evidence as evidence because it is incomplete and not representative of what you wanted to represent?

    Glad we had this talk.
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    re: Obamacare tops 6 million signups [W:263]

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Unfortunately, we have no other way to change healthcare, except by free markets and that hasn't been working well for average people.
    Yet, suggestions like HSA's, removing barriers to buying insurance across state lines would help free markets and those suggestions were available by Republicans before the bill was passed by only Democrats in the House and Senate. I'm not so sure there are no other options available to us and that we've tried absolutely everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    If you make a few adjustments to something as complicated as the medical insurance system, they'll do end runs around it.
    That's an assumption. It's too bad they didn't at least try before passing it.

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    The ACA is far from the plan it still needs to be. All I see are Republican obstructionists and doom sayers for purely political reasons.
    Economic and practical reasons as well. Changing an entire industry making up 1/6 of the economy should have been done together. The obstructionists were Democrats who didn't let Republicans even discuss the bill initially. Once the financials and economics of this failed plan becomes apparent, I'm sure those who defend it will continue to do so for purely political reasons as well

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Why is amending a bill easier? It's almost impossible to foresee all the problems that might occur with a large bill. I seriously think the conservatives would rather see the system collapse than have the ACA be a success and help people.
    First because it is not yet law, second because ideas and methods are still fluid and third because it's done via committee. Once the law is passed, the only way to change the law is to amend the law which always takes another vote. Changes before the bill is passed to law doesn't require House and Senate votes.

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    If Obamacare is so bad, you should be ecstatic for the Republican party, if that's who you support? They'll sweep the House, Senate and Presidency, when people see how bad the Dems have treated them.
    It is bad, and yes it's going to help Republicans politically but I'm not running for office, I don't benefit at all by this law but I see a country who was lied to multiple times about multiple things while government gets bigger. I'm not in support of that.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    re: Obamacare tops 6 million signups [W:263]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yet, suggestions like HSA's, removing barriers to buying insurance across state lines would help free markets and those suggestions were available by Republicans before the bill was passed by only Democrats in the House and Senate. I'm not so sure there are no other options available to us and that we've tried absolutely everything.
    selling across state lines has its skeptics.

    The Debate Over Selling Insurance Across State Lines - Kaiser Health News

    Why is there skepticism about the concept?

    "It always sounds appealing to offer more choice," said Kenneth Thorpe, an Emory University health policy expert and a health official in the Clinton administration. "But if you do look at it more closely, it does raise issues of regulation."

    If insurers can sell beyond state lines, the concern is that consumers would be attracted to the least comprehensive policies because they'd be cheapest. For example, someone could buy a policy in a state that doesn't mandate coverage of diabetic supplies. "You get what you pay for in these policies (and) consumers won't realize it until they are sick and it's too late," said Jerry Flanagan, health care policy analyst for Consumer Watchdog, a California consumer health group.

    There are also fears that consumers dealing with out-of-state companies would have difficulties resolving disputes, and that insurers selling across state lines would market policies to younger, healthier individuals. Older and sicker individuals would face ever-rising rates - or face being turned down - because their insurers would have fewer healthy people to spread risk. And, since health costs vary geographically, insurance purchased in one state might not cover as much of the cost of care in a more expensive state.

    Finally, critics say that selling insurance across state lines might not save much money, and point to a 2005 CBO report that says: "if only those benefit mandates imposed by the states with the lowest-cost mandates were in effect in all states, the price of individual health insurance would be reduced by about 5 percent, on average."
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  9. #249
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    re: Obamacare tops 6 million signups [W:263]

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yet, suggestions like HSA's, removing barriers to buying insurance across state lines would help free markets and those suggestions were available by Republicans before the bill was passed by only Democrats in the House and Senate. I'm not so sure there are no other options available to us and that we've tried absolutely everything.

    That's an assumption. It's too bad they didn't at least try before passing it.

    Economic and practical reasons as well. Changing an entire industry making up 1/6 of the economy should have been done together. The obstructionists were Democrats who didn't let Republicans even discuss the bill initially. Once the financials and economics of this failed plan becomes apparent, I'm sure those who defend it will continue to do so for purely political reasons as well

    First because it is not yet law, second because ideas and methods are still fluid and third because it's done via committee. Once the law is passed, the only way to change the law is to amend the law which always takes another vote. Changes before the bill is passed to law doesn't require House and Senate votes.



    It is bad, and yes it's going to help Republicans politically but I'm not running for office, I don't benefit at all by this law but I see a country who was lied to multiple times about multiple things while government gets bigger. I'm not in support of that.
    I'll admit the Dems didn't discuss some suggested options that were potentially beneficial. They're not above partisan crappery. But just because the Dems were obstructionists doesn't justify the GOP for doing it.

    I bet the Republicans better hope it's a flop, the way they've continually damned it. I'll use Fox News as my gauge of how poorly it's doing, since they rail day and night about it, but if they suddenly drop coverage....oooops.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  10. #250
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    re: Obamacare tops 6 million signups [W:263]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    And they should be skeptical but not to the point that it's dismissed before being tried.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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