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Thread: Controversy over Ukraine's Tymoshenko 'wipe out Russians' leak

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    Re: Controversy over Ukraine's Tymoshenko 'wipe out Russians' leak

    Has ever the U.S. looked weaker?

    I'm glad we don't have to fight Ukraine. That lady would whoop Obama's ass blind-folded.

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    Re: Controversy over Ukraine's Tymoshenko 'wipe out Russians' leak

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    If Ukraine does nothing, Russia is going to absorb their entire country before the year is out. Where is your care about the war footing Russia is on? Where is your care of the, on an national scale, mugging of Ukraine by Russia that's happened so far?
    If you were completely honest you would be questioning yourself on how caring you are when your country absorbs entire countries.

    Oh wait! You only do it once you've decided they need either democracy or freedom!

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    Re: Controversy over Ukraine's Tymoshenko 'wipe out Russians' leak

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Has ever the U.S. looked weaker?

    I'm glad we don't have to fight Ukraine. That lady would whoop Obama's ass blind-folded.
    First of all, the US shot itself in the foot here. And actually it was Putin who had his back against the wall. He simply salvaged what he could as they were about to take practically everything that Russia used to have.

    Second of all, Ukraine couldn't beat a mosquito without the US backing it.

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    Re: Controversy over Ukraine's Tymoshenko 'wipe out Russians' leak

    Quote Originally Posted by Gazza View Post
    If you were completely honest you would be questioning yourself on how caring you are when your country absorbs entire countries.

    Oh wait! You only do it once you've decided they need either democracy or freedom!
    When have done that?
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Controversy over Ukraine's Tymoshenko 'wipe out Russians' leak

    Quote Originally Posted by MildSteel View Post
    First of all, the US shot itself in the foot here. And actually it was Putin who had his back against the wall. He simply salvaged what he could as they were about to take practically everything that Russia used to have.

    Second of all, Ukraine couldn't beat a mosquito without the US backing it.
    Bottom line is, Putin is striking while we have the weakest leader in our history at the helm. The whole world is taking shots while Obama continues to try and appease and befriend the planet.

    Predators smell a weakness, and the U.S. is dripping in blood these days.

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    Re: Controversy over Ukraine's Tymoshenko 'wipe out Russians' leak

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Bottom line is, Putin is striking while we have the weakest leader in our history at the helm. The whole world is taking shots while Obama continues to try and appease and befriend the planet.

    Predators smell a weakness, and the U.S. is dripping in blood these days.
    So if Putin perceives Obama to be so weak, then how do you explain this?

    U.S. President Barack Obama on Thursday ordered a second round of sanctions targeting about two dozen members of Putin's inner circle and a major bank supporting them.

    Putin said in televised remarks at Friday's session of the presidential Security Council that he sees no immediate need for further Russian retaliation and said sardonically that he would open an account in the targeted bank.

    Putin's statement appeared to signal to the West that Russia wants to maintain cooperation in other areas despite the tensions over Ukraine. He said that Russia will keep funding a program to service Afghan helicopters and train their crews that has been conducted jointly with NATO.
    That's not the type of thing you do when you are going up against someone who you believe to be weak. Obama uped the ante and he backed off. That's the type of thing you do when you don't want to get deeper into a conflict with someone who has you outgunned.

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    Re: Controversy over Ukraine's Tymoshenko 'wipe out Russians' leak

    It appears that Ukraine is going to have a lot of trouble from right wing nationalists.

    BBC News - Ukraine leader Turchynov warns of far-right threat

    Ukraine's interim President Olexander Turchynov has condemned the ultra-nationalist Right Sector, saying the group is bent on "destabilisation".

    Right Sector activists blocked the parliament (Rada) building in Kiev on Thursday night and smashed windows.

    They blamed the interior minister for the killing of a Right Sector leader.
    .........................
    At a parliament session on Friday, Mr Turchynov, called the Right Sector rally outside parliament "an attempt to destabilise the situation in Ukraine, in the very heart of Ukraine - Kiev. That is precisely the task that the Russian Federation's political leadership is giving to its special services".

    Right Sector activists are furious over the death of Oleksandr Muzychko, better known as Sashko Bily, one of their leaders. The interior ministry said he died on Monday night in a shoot-out with police in a cafe in Rivne in western Ukraine.

    A member of the far-right group in Rivne threatened revenge for the killing of Mr Muzychko.

    "We will avenge ourselves on [Interior Minister] Arsen Avakov for the death of our brother. The shooting of Sashko Bily is a contract killing ordered by the minister," Right Sector member Roman Koval was quoted as saying by the Ukrayinska Pravda website.


    The Right Sector played a prominent role in the Kiev protests - and the clashes with police - which led to the removal of Mr Yanukovych from power. Its main support base is in western Ukraine.

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    Re: Controversy over Ukraine's Tymoshenko 'wipe out Russians' leak

    There is a very dangerous undercurrent of ultra right wing nationalism in Ukraine right now. How will it be possible to control such people? It appears that Tymoshenko's comments merely reflect a strong dangerous trend in Ukraine. This should be very very careful about how it conducts it's business over there. That place is a tinderbox.

    Pravy Sector: The Radical Force of Ukrainian Maidan

    Pravy Sector: The Radical Force of Ukrainian Maidan

    The massive, violent, anti-government protests resumed in Ukraine on February 18, 2014, the day Verokhovna Rada (the Ukrainian Parliament) was set to ratify changes to the Constitution. These changes (returning to the Parliamentary-presidential form of government) were among the demands of the opposition. That day, aggressive groups of people tried to seize the building of Verkhovna Rada. Radicals burst into the buildings in downtown Kiev, burned tires and cars, threw rocks and Molotov cocktails at the police and burned the office of the Party of the Regions, where two employees were killed. For the first time during the lasting uprising, protesters used firearms against the police. As a result, nearly 100 people are dead, almost 40 of them are policemen, and thousands injured.

    The European Union and the United States blame the Ukrainian government for the situation. That is only partially justified - indeed there was some excessive use of force by police. But it is also fair to assert that during the protests, Ukrainian government and police showed more restraint when compared with the international practice and experience of protest suppression. Even after the seizure of administrative buildings and assaults on the police, President Viktor Yanukovych did not initiate a state of emergency, and the "peaceful protesters" lived in the seized buildings, paralyzing the work of the Department of Agriculture and Department of Justice as well as Kiev City Hall. The president did not initiate it when protesters seized the buildings of the local state administrations in Lvov, Rovno, Ternopyl, Ivano-Frankovsk, Chernovtsi, Khmelnytsk and Vinnitsa. Just imagine for a moment how an American government would react if a group of radicals had seized the local legislatures in 29 percent of the states and tried to seize the Capitol in Washington.

    The next day, Vitali Klitschko, Arseniy Yatsenyuk and Oleh Tyahnybok and Yanukovych called the truce, which meant that the special forces of Ukrainian police would not disperse the protesters from the streets, and protesters would stop their assaults, so the negotiations between the opposition and the government could continue. And on February 21, Yanukovych had satisfied all demands of the opposition in order to stop the crisis: Ukraine is returning to the Parliamental-presidential form of government, Verkhovna Rada is in the process of appointing the new members of the Cabinet, Yulia Timoshenko is freed, all Special Forces of the police are withdrawn from Maidan, and Verkhovna Rada voted to hold an early presidential election in May, and also early Parliamental elections. The next day, the president resigned.

    But assaults from radical groups headed by Pravy Sector have not stopped, and they continue to break the law. Their leader Dmytro Yarosh is not satisfied with the results: "We incline to see in it another lie" - he wrote on his Facebook page - "the national revolution continues. It will end with the complete elimination of the inner occupation and with the establishment of the Ukrainian national sovereign state."

    There is not much information in US media regarding those radicals, so it is important to understand who is really controlling the violent protesters now that it is obvious that the radical Pravy Sector is a force that turned peaceful demonstrations into violent riots.

    Who's Who at Pravy Sector

    Pravy Sector is an extremist right-wing group that consists of the Ukrainian nationalist organizations "Ukrainian Patriot," "Tryzub" (Trident), UNA-UNSO and White Hammer. Their ideology is Ukrainian nationalism that employs neo-Fascist and neo-Nazi beliefs. For example, Pravy Sector and UNA-UNSO web sites provide direct links to the works of radical Ukrainian ideologist Dmyrto Dontsov, who believed in racial theory. For example, he suggested that the right of superior races should be exercised by way of "creative violence by a minority showing initiative," which must subjugate its own people to itself and force it to undertake aggression against others.

    Among the historical figures praised by Pravy Sector are leaders of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists and particularly Stepan Bandera, whose portrait was decorating the entrance of the seized Kiev City Hall. Bandera, among others, is considered to be a historical chief of the movement. It is interesting to know that Bandera was a head of the wing of Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists that collaborated with Nazi Germany during World War II. During the Nazi occupation of Ukraine, OUN played an essential part in the holocaust and ethnic massacres of Western Ukraine's Polish population, establishing "Ukraine for Ukrainians."

    Pravy Sector and European Integration

    The massive anti-government protests started in Kiev and other cities of Ukraine in late November 2013 as a reaction to the failure of Yanukovych to sign the Association Agreement with the EU. Tired of government corruption and of Yanukovych's "La Familia" of poverty and of social injustice, people hoped to influence the president in a peaceful way, as they did during the Orange revolution in 2004. A majority of Ukrainians wants to establish closer ties with the EU in the hope that that would bring more economic and political freedom and prosperity to the country. But does Pravy Sector believe in the European values of political democracy, human rights, free markets and social tolerance? The answer is - no, it does not. On Pravy Sector's web site, Yarosh expresses his views on European values in the spirit of his ideological predecessor Dontsov: He denies the ideals of humanism, socialism, liberal democracy, atheism, cosmopolitism and globalization, because they form a "slave type of consciousness" and turn an individual into a part of a "cosmopolitan herd" that lives in a "global concentration camp."

    The peaceful anti-government demonstrations started by liberal politicians were supported widely by moderate Ukrainians. Pravy Sector, in turn, saw an opportunity to start a destruction of the "state skeleton," as Yarosh said, and to build a fundamentally new state. What kind of state that would be? Well, read Dontsov.

    Pravy Sector and the Moderate Opposition

    At the beginning of the protests, Pravy Sector had served as a force of defense: Its members guarded the peaceful protesters from the possible suppression by the police, and they took part in all fights with the police. But very soon the differences between the radicals and mainstream opposition became more evident. In December, after the failure to seize the governmental offices in downtown Kiev, for which Pravy Sector had officially taken a responsibility, three leaders of opposition called Pravy Sector "provocateurs" supported by the government and by Russian intelligence. In response, Pravy Sector activists started a campaign of "resistance to the provocateurs-pacifists": "All those who at this point would try to tame the revolutionary energy of the masses should be proclaimed traitors and punished in the most severe way. The time of peaceful singing and dancing at Maidan is over. This is a waste of time. There can be no negotiations, no compromise with the ruling gang. We will carry high the fire of national revolution."
    ....................

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    Re: Controversy over Ukraine's Tymoshenko 'wipe out Russians' leak

    Has the US unleashed a Frankenstein that it cannot control in the Ukraine?

    Right-wingers want to unseat Kyiv's interim leaders | GlobalPost

    Right-wingers want to unseat Kyiv's interim leaders

    A paramilitary group that played an important role in removing Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych last month is now in a confrontation with the revolutionary government in Kyiv.

    Pravy Sektor, or Right Sector, a nationalist group formed by right-wing demonstrators on Kyiv’s central Maidan, or Independence Square, in December, picketed the country’s parliament on Thursday amid tension with the government following the slaying of a party leader.

    Police shot and killed the head of Pravy Sektor in Western Ukraine earlier this week in unclear circumstances. The group is demanding the interior minister resign over the incident.

    After Thursday's demonstration, interim President Olexander Turchynov accused Pravy Sektor of trying to “destabilize” Kyiv. He called the group’s protest a Russian-inspired attempt to unsettle the country.

    The nationalists’ challenge to the government comes after the paramilitary group announced it was purging extremist elements and adding a political party to its combat brigades.

    The newly constituted party says its ideology is nationalist, not fascist or neo-Nazi — which means it wants Ukraine to be the master of its geopolitical destiny, and not the servant of larger powers such as the European Union or Russia. Publically, at least, it advocates “brotherliness” to the country’s minorities, including Russians and Jews.

    On that platform, Pravy Sektor's leaders want to grab power at the ballot box across Ukraine — and to see leader Dmitro Yarosh elected president in May’s poll.

    “Losing is not an option,” Pravy Sektor spokesman Arten Skoropadsky said in the lobby of party-occupied Hotel Dnipro. “Over the last two months we have grown from a small social organization to a national force. Ten thousand people have now said they are willing to join.”

    Until recent days, Pravy Sektor’s reputation as an apparently effective enemy of Yanukovych has won it support in Kyiv — including from protesters aligned with the new Ukrainian leadership.

    During the winter demonstrations, protesters say, Pravy Sektor proved an agile force that was able to largely maintain security at the Maidan encampment and spearhead protesters' attempts to storm police lines and capture new ground in downtown Kyiv.

    “They were organized and effective — they always carried out every task we gave them,” said Danielo Klech, the head of the Maidan self-defense committee, which is close to interim government National Security Council head and former Maidan commander Andrej Paruby.

    Although Pravy Sektor helped bring the current government to power, since Yanukovych’s departure, the party has become the de facto challenger to the former parliamentary opposition leaders who are now in charge.

    “We need to clean out everyone,” said Alexander Konomko, a militiaman in Pravy Sektor's 23rd brigade on Maidan.

    “We need to change the political system — they are trampling the bodies of the dead.”

    Questions remain about the group's history of anti-Russian activities. Russian media says presidential hopeful Yarosh fought in Chechnya during the first war there in the 1990s. Other party leaders are also rumored to have served among the forces there fending off Russian advances.

    Pro-Russian activists in the country's second city, Kharkiv, accuse members of Pravy Sektor's local branch of prompting ethnic conflict by drafting what they see as a group of neo-fascists from the central city of Dnepropetrovsk to attack pro-Russians in recent weeks. Pravy Sektor blame persecution by pro-Russian activists — a group including bikers and the self-proclaimed Russian fight club "Oplot" — for the ethnic unrest in Kharkiv. Locals partly support their version of events.

    Two people died in clashes between pro-Russians and Pravy Sektor earlier this month. Afterward, police arrested around 30 nationalists.

    “If [the nationalists] are freed ... it will cause massive unrest,” says Alexandr Alexandrovskiy, a political consultant to Yanukovych's Party of Regions. “This is a neo-fascist organization.”

    Pravy Sektor's stance toward the Kyiv interim government has also been criticized. The party has pushed the authorities to be firmer with Russia in Crimea. Government supporters say that risks provoking an escalation of the crisis.

    “They should not put as much pressure on the interim government,” said Klech, from the Maidan self-defense committee. “Right now, they are making ultimatums to the government to storm or capture something. Those tactics were suited to Yanukovych's time, but they aren't suitable now.”


    Pravy Sektor's electoral appeal remains as uncertain as its future. However, straw polls conducted in Kyiv suggest a level of admiration if not support for the group.

    “If it wasn't for Pravy Sektor we'd still be sitting on Maidan,” says Svetlana Klitskaya, who attended a meeting on the square last Sunday. “But they are not competent politicians — and they are too radical.”

    Kyiv's Maidan revolution began last November with a call by an Afghan-Iranian journalist, Mustafa Nayem, for people to take to the streets in support of the European Union after Yanukovych refused to sign a political and economic pact with the organization.

    More from GlobalPost: 26 things found in Yanukovych's compound that make him look even worse

    In the final days of his regime, protesters clamped on helmets, carried shields and fell to police bullets — and Pravy Sektor was prominent among those facing down riot police.

    But it remains unclear in these post-revolutionary days how the paramilitary group intends to transform itself into a political movement, and to what end. Leaders have made a broad vow to maintain the party’s paramilitary brigades so long as Ukraine faces “external or internal enemies.”

    “A political party is a weapon of political struggle,” Pravy Sektor's Kyiv head Igor Mazok said at the party’s media launch, “like a Kalashnikov is an instrument of military struggle.”

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    Re: Controversy over Ukraine's Tymoshenko 'wipe out Russians' leak

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    When have done that?
    In the same manner that Russia annexed Crimea?...Hawaii.

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