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Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

no the just don't give scholarships. if they drop the football program they still have to pay the coaches buy out. so he is paid either way.

Yes of course the buyout...if that's what you've been referring to. I'm referring to future contracts will be lower across the board if players start getting paid.



also athletic departments are considered non-profit so there is no profit to spit with the players if they even wanted it.

UMich brings in $6 mil in tickets against patsy state. Star players gonna demand $150k of that thru their new union. AD takes your path and puts to use walk ons instead? Make that $500k in ticket sales instead.

What i think really happens? They drop tennis and a dozen other total revenue pitfalls

If you are referring to penn st. then call it penn st. that way people know what you are talking about.
The reason they are still there is because they care about the students that are on scholarship. if they were to drop the football program all those kids would lose their scholarships.

I'll call it what they deserve and no, it's still there the same reason they tried to not remove the damn statue, because it's a $ maker and they live for football. I'll grant you NW, but i think you're crazy if you're gonna say florida state or alabama is about to drop football for *anything* much less rather than sharing a small piece of the revenue with players.
 
Not surprisingly you have no idea what a strawman actually is. I've repeatedly shown you how athletes on scholarships are effectively employees. You've even implicitly agreed by admitting that college athletes are effectively "paid". You're just don't have the wherewithal to connect the dots.

and now we bring out the ad hominems. so between the strawmans and the ad homimens you can't actually address anything. thanks for backing this up.
no scholarships do not make you an employee. it allows you to attend college. just like every court in the nation has ruled for 30 years.

only because people like you claim they aren't. they received free schooling, a degree if they choose to graduate, along with all the other things for playing football and being a student.

Yep. These are conditions of their (effective) employment. Just like I have to meet certain conditions to be employed at my job (and you at yours, assuming anyone is willing to employ you for anything).

wrong it is conditions to play football. if they do not make the grades even in high school or the requirements to enroll in the college their scholarship is invalid.
again ad hominem negates anything you have to say and pretty much makes you opinion irrelevant.

Look, I can only repeat myself so many times. It's clear you're not able (or not willing) to understand it. Although it's been fun, I've wasted enough time slapping you around. Good day! :)

Yep you can repeat yourself as much as you want you will be just as wrong the next time as you are this time.

30 years of court rulings saying that students are not employee's.
that there is nothing in any paper work that they sign that makes them employee's
that the college has never given them any sign that they would become employee's

tell you that you are simply wrong. the fact that you ignore this like others tells me that you refuses to educate yourself.
that the only point you can try to make is to try and belittle someone.

the only person you have slapped is yourself. since you have proven that you can't be honest and can only resort to insults in order to try and prove your point.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

Yes of course the buyout...if that's what you've been referring to. I'm referring to future contracts will be lower across the board if players start getting paid.

nope because good coaches won't take less. neither will their staff. in order to make up the windfall school will probably drop other non-revenue sports and be football basketball only.

that or if they can't get that to work because of Title IX requirements they will simply drop the programs all together or like i said get rid of scholarships and kids that want to play football will do so.




UMich brings in $6 mil in tickets against patsy state. Star players gonna demand $150k of that thru their new union. AD takes your path and puts to use walk ons instead? Make that $500k in ticket sales instead.

again athletics departments are non-profit revenue is not profit. profit is what they make after expenses. so if they are non-profit they make 0 money by the end of the year so there is no sharing to have.

What i think really happens? They drop tennis and a dozen other total revenue pitfalls

they might not be able to title IX requirements.


I'll call it what they deserve and no, it's still there the same reason they tried to not remove the damn statue, because it's a $ maker and they live for football. I'll grant you NW, but i think you're crazy if you're gonna say florida state or alabama is about to drop football for *anything* much less rather than sharing a small piece of the revenue with players.

Then no one will know what you are talking about. the name of the school is penn st.
they already do share revenue with the players.

they get scholarships that is where those scholarships come from is the revenue brought in by the program.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

employers don't 'get' to 'let' the employees unionize
employees have a 'right' of association to form a bargaining unit if the election results of the prospective bargaining unit employees indicate 50% plus one of them chose the union option

Of course they do. They simply say to the football players, we aren't going to pay you. If you insist we'll end the football program. I once worked for a company with a big warehouse. The warehouse employees decided to organize. Management closed the warehouse and moved the stock to a private warehousing company. None of those employees were hired by the warehousing company. They were warned well in advance of their vote. They voted themselves out of a job.

I think the solution for the universities is to drop out of the NCAA and let it go out of business. Let the booster clubs raise money and handle player compensation. The NCAA has messed up sports for a long time. Just put them to rest.

I'd like to see university put emphasis on educating students rather than hiring them to play football.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

no. you offered no real alternatives
in contrast, the northwestern athletes did
they now have an opportunity to negotiate for change in a way that no longer existed

I did too offer a couple of alternatives. There can be salary caps on coaches and other incentives that help the college make money off the student athletes.
 
No. I don't. Please explain it to me.

Outright spending money on them, as opposed to offering a scholarship. Then, they aren't really "students" anymore. This would change the whole dynamic.

Sorry that's already the way it is. The best athletes go to the top tier programs that can offer them huge scholarships and the chance to play in BCS bowls and get national exposure to NFL scouts. Little schools get the leftovers. That's the way it's been for a half century, it's nothing new.

That is not necessarily the case because everyone can't get into the best colleges on a scholarship. Schools like Harvard and Yale don't have the BEST football teams either, so that is just not right at all.


So? Why is it ridiculous?

I think I and others have done a fair job of explaining that to you already. No need to repeat everything that's already been said.



Student athlete is a bogus term invented by the NCAA. Universities are compensating athletes to perform a service that can generate tens of millions of dollars in profit for the school. Unless we get rid of athletic scholarships altogether, they are effectively professionals.

Lol! They are not professionals. They are student athletes, some as young as 18 years old. :lol:



How so? Like what?

Good Lord, just look at the NFL. I can't believe someone has to explain this simple stuff.



Why would this cause academics to suffer? It wouldn't force any school to spend a dime more on athletics then they want to.

Again, I would think the answer here is quite obvious.

The players can't force the school to do anything. If the player wants a big paycheck and the school doesn't want to pay him a big paycheck, then they're probably not going to make a deal.
[

Are you kidding me? With the force of a union behind them, they most certainly can. A lot of unions already do this.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

they already do share revenue with the players.

they get scholarships that is where those scholarships come from is the revenue brought in by the program.

let's be real, the reason chris webber and countless others bitch about it is they could not give 2 ****s about the 'education' or scholarship, except that the scholly is required for their pro career tryouts for a given year. What they want is cash plain and simple.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

There's also mention of players accusing the NCAA of not providing them adequate concussion protection. I agree with them on that point, but I still don't see why other rules could not be put into place regarding college athletic programs instead of the student athletes unionizing. I just think it's going to change college sports and not for the better and that allowing the students to unionize is blurring the lines between a student and an employee. Just because people (fans) willingly spend money to see these athletes play does not make them employees IMO, and that is where the money comes from, the fans.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

Of course they do. They simply say to the football players, we aren't going to pay you. If you insist we'll end the football program.
and the federal labor relations board will step in and declare the employer to have violated federal labor law because it failed to negotiate in good faith

bam!

I once worked for a company with a big warehouse. The warehouse employees decided to organize. Management closed the warehouse and moved the stock to a private warehousing company. None of those employees were hired by the warehousing company. They were warned well in advance of their vote. They voted themselves out of a job.
terrible comparison, exposing that you know nothing about labor requirements
do you believe the university is going to contract out its football team as that company did its warehousing? absolutely absurd


I think the solution for the universities is to drop out of the NCAA and let it go out of business.
here's a clue: that will do nothing to end the unionization effort; an effort which in no way is reliant on the presence of the NCAA

Let the booster clubs raise money and handle player compensation.
only if that is what is agreed upon by the employer-university together with the players and their union. because that is the system in place for resolving disputes between employers and union represented employees: labor-management negotiation


The NCAA has messed up sports for a long time. Just put them to rest.
i disagree
look at how far college athletics has come
look at how much money is made
look at the size of the fan base
the NCAA has been great
but more so to the employers than the players
that's about to change

I'd like to see university put emphasis on educating students rather than hiring them to play football.
sporting events allow the alumni to stay connected- a part of - their schools
follow the money. it's not going away
the players will be better compensated and cared for, just as pro players after they established their own unions
notice, pro ball did not go away either. it's stronger than it has ever been
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

and the federal labor relations board will step in and declare the employer to have violated federal labor law because it failed to negotiate in good faith

bam!


terrible comparison, exposing that you know nothing about labor requirements
do you believe the university is going to contract out its football team as that company did its warehousing? absolutely absurd



here's a clue: that will do nothing to end the unionization effort; an effort which in no way is reliant on the presence of the NCAA


only if that is what is agreed upon by the employer-university together with the players and their union. because that is the system in place for resolving disputes between employers and union represented employees: labor-management negotiation



i disagree
look at how far college athletics has come
look at how much money is made
look at the size of the fan base
the NCAA has been great
but more so to the employers than the players
that's about to change


sporting events allow the alumni to stay connected- a part of - their schools
follow the money. it's not going away
the players will be better compensated and cared for, just as pro players after they established their own unions
notice, pro ball did not go away either. it's stronger than it has ever been

A lot of colleges are probably just going to end their scholarship programs for student athletes, and that's sad considering that some of them wouldn't be able to attend otherwise.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

A lot of colleges are probably just going to end their scholarship programs for student athletes, and that's sad considering that some of them wouldn't be able to attend otherwise.

how sad is that, really?
any kid who wants to go to college can borrow the money to make that happen. so, if the kid wants a college education, he can get one

... you know, like other kids who go to college
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

how sad is that, really?
any kid who wants to go to college can borrow the money to make that happen. so, if the kid wants a college education, he can get one

... you know, like other kids who go to college

It is sad. Not everyone can afford a loan either.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

It is sad. Not everyone can afford a loan either.


why not?
why are we only concerned about those athletes
how about the academically advanced students who want to go to school
thought you were interested in changing the university's focus from athletics to academics
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

why not?
why are we only concerned about those athletes
how about the academically advanced students who want to go to school
thought you were interested in changing the university's focus from athletics to academics

What are you talking about? There are academic scholarships too.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

What are you talking about? There are academic scholarships too.

every student does not qualify for an academic scholarship
just as every athlete does not for an athletic one
most students have to borrow to attend college
and if a student believes they will graduate then they cannot afford not to take out a loan
the cost of attending college will soon be retired from the extra money they earned because they acquired a degree

but those on athletic scholarship should be able to earn money from their labors ... to return to the thread topic
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

every student does not qualify for an academic scholarship
just as every athlete does not for an athletic one
most students have to borrow to attend college
and if a student believes they will graduate then they cannot afford not to take out a loan
the cost of attending college will soon be retired from the extra money they earned because they acquired a degree

but those on athletic scholarship should be able to earn money from their labors ... to return to the thread topic

Do you have any IDEA how much it costs to go to college nowadays? No, scholarships are important. A lot of people cannot afford to pay back student loans even AFTER they graduate. A lot of college graduates are having a VERY difficult finding work for one thing.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

let's be real, the reason chris webber and countless others bitch about it is they could not give 2 ****s about the 'education' or scholarship, except that the scholly is required for their pro career tryouts for a given year. What they want is cash plain and simple.

Then get a job. no one is forcing them to play football or go to college.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

Then get a job. no one is forcing them to play football or go to college.

Dude i am not defending them. If anything, i think a huge # of athletes and even 'normal students' don't belong in college at all. I'd rather see the 80% who jerked off thru high school banned from any federal aid and the 20% who actually worked and got into a decent school get rewarded with 100% grant funding.

All those "one and dones" for kentucky basketball? The **** are they doing in college?

But if they take your advice and "get a job", there goes college sports as we know it.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

Then get a job. no one is forcing them to play football or go to college.

Good Lord! College is continuing education and NOT a job no matter what sports you participate in! This whole thing is just silly to me, and I hope it's overturned. If players feel like colleges are exploiting them, then there are other ways to deal with that.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

Dude i am not defending them. If anything, i think a huge # of athletes and even 'normal students' don't belong in college at all. I'd rather see the 80% who jerked off thru high school banned from any federal aid and the 20% who actually worked and got into a decent school get rewarded with 100% grant funding.

All those "one and dones" for kentucky basketball? The **** are they doing in college?

But if they take your advice and "get a job", there goes college sports as we know it.
yes you are. the past 10 posts have done nothing but defend them.

If anything, i think a huge # of athletes and even 'normal students' don't belong in college at all.
how elitist of you.

we should do what other countries do like china if you don't pass the test then you go work on a farm or factory somewhere and any formal education is out of the question.
/sarcasm.

no i was being honest. if they want money then go get a job. if they want something that will forever grant them more money even after college then a degree is the way to go.
the chances of them getting into pro sports is slim to none.

only 10-20% of high school students get scholarships to play sports. only 2 maybe 3% of them make it to the pro's.
the rest go undrafted and un-signed and having a college degree to fall back on is better than nothing.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

every student does not qualify for an academic scholarship
just as every athlete does not for an athletic one
most students have to borrow to attend college
and if a student believes they will graduate then they cannot afford not to take out a loan
the cost of attending college will soon be retired from the extra money they earned because they acquired a degree

but those on athletic scholarship should be able to earn money from their labors ... to return to the thread topic

And how about really bright 1st year Medical students on a academic medical scholarship? I guess they should be able to see patients too eh?

Now, if you want to say that the student athletes want to have a say in equipment, injury treatment, with funds set aside by to remediate future consequences of their activity today then I would say that is fair...But, to muddy the argument by calling them "employees" or arguing that they should be actually paid to play a sport that is the gateway into possible millions in the NFL, is the epitome of greedy if you ask me.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

Do you have any IDEA how much it costs to go to college nowadays?
duh, yea. have two young adults with degrees. one with a masters
but i did the math when i had them both in day care at the same time, and realized then that if i could afford to put them in day care, i would be able to afford to send them to college

No, scholarships are important.
make up your mind
my position is the players should be able to negotiate for additional benefits
now, all of a sudden you are concerned about the students having access to college funding
does that mean you have wisely changed your position on this issue

A lot of people cannot afford to pay back student loans even AFTER they graduate. A lot of college graduates are having a VERY difficult finding work for one thing.
the data says you are woefully wrong on this, too:
... According to the College Board, annual tuition and fees averaged $8,655 at public four-year colleges and $29,056 at private four-year schools as of October 2012. These costs don't include living expenses and textbooks or reductions for financial aid. Higher education still pays, however, because the average college graduate receives higher yearly and lifetime earnings than a high school graduate.
The average one-year difference in earnings for a college graduate over a high school graduate will pay nearly two-and-a-half years of tuition and fees at a four-year public college. With a high school diploma only, the average full-time worker earned $652 per week in 2012, or $33,904 for 52 weeks, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics. Bachelor's degree graduates earned an average of $1,066 per week, or $55,432 annually -- a difference of $21,528 per year. The BLS statistics include only full-time workers ages 25 and older.
How Much More Money Does a College Graduate Make Than Just a High School Graduate? | Everyday Life - Global Post
emphasis added by bubba to make a much needed point
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

Good Lord! College is continuing education and NOT a job no matter what sports you participate in! This whole thing is just silly to me, and I hope it's overturned. If players feel like colleges are exploiting them, then there are other ways to deal with that.

ways of dealing you have been unable to articulate
 
Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize - CNN.com



This will change college athletics forever.

If football players get paid, what about the golf team, the women's soccer team, the water polo team, etc? Will those sports be dropped altogether? If athletes strike, do they forfeit their scholarships? Can a team at one school strike on its own? Do athletes at Texas get a piece of the Longhorn Network revenues? Where is this going to go?

Funny, I thought getting an entire college education paid for at a major university was quite a reward to begin with, not to mention the unlimited amount of exposure that could lead to a lucrative pro career for the elite players.

I think this kills college athletics altogether except for football and men's basketball. Problem is, Title IX requires a school to offset the scholarships with women's sports, so it might even kill football and basketball, too at smaller schools.

You know what? now Northwestern should be forbidden from handing out football scholarships.

These bozo's aren't "employees" of Northwestern - they're college students.
 
Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

duh, yea. have two young adults with degrees. one with a masters
but i did the math when i had them both in day care at the same time, and realized then that if i could afford to put them in day care, i would be able to afford to send them to college


make up your mind
my position is the players should be able to negotiate for additional benefits
now, all of a sudden you are concerned about the students having access to college funding
does that mean you have wisely changed your position on this issue


the data says you are woefully wrong on this, too:

How Much More Money Does a College Graduate Make Than Just a High School Graduate? | Everyday Life - Global Post
emphasis added by bubba to make a much needed point

A lot of colleges are probably going to drop athletic scholarship programs. That means less kids with access to college no matter how much you try to make it sound like a good thing. :roll: The scholarship IS the benefit. They are not employees. They are students.
 
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