Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

[Threegoofs]

he didn't sneak under the radar i have posted those links for him multiple times. he is ignoring it on purpose.

NO. i'm saying that it wont necessarily be the case that they are true employees and not students.

Look at graduate students (why do I think this area may be foreign to you?). They get a stipend that is NON TAXABLE and they act essentially as employees - teaching in classrooms or doing research work. The scholarship is contingent on it being a part of their education, and I think you can make a case for many of these players that participation in their sport is part of their educational endeavor - especially when they are majoring in PE or kinesiology, or sports marketing, etc.

Its a simple hurdle that will be handled.

 

[haymarket]

There is a reasonable solution to this situation that can benefit the athlete, the athletic program, the university and the entire industry of college athletics. Just pay athletes a part time wage to be members of teams which generate revenue for the university in addition to the scholarship they get. A stipend of $10K per season for something like football and basketball (the 2 big revenue generating sports) would be fine and would show the university and the NCAA is willing to meet the athlete in the middle and compromise.

The think I have always loathed about college athletics is the fraud that these are "student athletes pursuing an education" when a good chunk of them could never ever get into those universities based on pure academic merit. if I had my way I would establish a rule that ALL student applicants must first get into the university and meet the same academic standards as every other student and then the university can offer athletic scholarships to those who play sports from that same student body. You would not have some kid with a high school GPA of 2.0 and low SAT scores playing for a major university where the average accepted applicant has a GPA and test scores in a much higher stratosphere. That is a recipe for failure and it is not fair to the student.

 

[ludin]

NO. i'm saying that it wont necessarily be the case that they are true employees and not students.

Look at graduate students (why do I think this area may be foreign to you?). They get a stipend that is NON TAXABLE and they act essentially as employees - teaching in classrooms or doing research work. The scholarship is contingent on it being a part of their education, and I think you can make a case for many of these players that participation in their sport is part of their educational endeavor - especially when they are majoring in PE or kinesiology, or sports marketing, etc.

Its a simple hurdle that will be handled.

employee's must pay tax on income. unless their scholarship is related to their degree they will have to pay tax on that money period. i am sorry you cannot accept facts but that doesn't change it one bit.

they will have to pay taxes. the facts are in front of you the fact you are ignoring them means you are just being dishonest.

how does a QB relate to business admin? how does a OL relate to engineering or accounting?

the answer is they don't.

 

[ludin]

There is a reasonable solution to this situation that can benefit the athlete, the athletic program, the university and the entire industry of college athletics. Just pay athletes a part time wage to be members of teams which generate revenue for the university in addition to the scholarship they get. A stipend of $10K per season for something like football and basketball (the 2 big revenue generating sports) would be fine and would show the university and the NCAA is willing to meet the athlete in the middle and compromise.

The think I have always loathed about college athletics is the fraud that these are "student athletes pursuing an education" when a good chunk of them could never ever get into those universities based on pure academic merit. if I had my way I would establish a rule that ALL student applicants must first get into the university and meet the same academic standards as every other student and then the university can offer athletic scholarships to those who play sports from that same student body. You would not have some kid with a high school GPA of 2.0 and low SAT scores playing for a major university where the average accepted applicant has a GPA and test scores in a much higher stratosphere. That is a recipe for failure and it is not fair to the student.

as an employee any income they receive unless it is related to their major is non-exempt and considered income.

They do meet the qualifications to get into college. they have to in order to get the scholarship to begin with.

 

[Threegoofs]

employee's must pay tax on income. unless their scholarship is related to their degree they will have to pay tax on that money period. i am sorry you cannot accept facts but that doesn't change it one bit.

they will have to pay taxes. the facts are in front of you the fact you are ignoring them means you are just being dishonest.

how does a QB relate to business admin? how does a OL relate to engineering or accounting?

the answer is they don't.

Well, everybody in a sport gets a minor in PE.

There. Solved it.

 

[haymarket]

I do. I support kids going to college to study, not play with their balls.

I found this... a study estimates that the annual compensation via scholarship, etc for division 1 basketball players is about #27k per year. And thats for basketball players ON SCHOLARSHIP - which is not all players.

NLRB Ruling Reignites College-Athlete Pay Debate | FiveThirtyEight

Thats a pretty good deal for colleges, considering another study showed that a college player in the NCAA tournament would be paid hundreds of thousands of dollars a game in a real open market.

And its an even better deal for the NFL and the NBA who do not have to operate expensive farm systems like baseball does. Even the NBA with their associated small town leagues is a drop in the bucket compared to the baseball minors.

 

[haymarket]

Then how will universities compete for the top recruits? Boosters, of course, and their nefarious ways will suddenly become fully legal.

And how many athletes can T. Boone Pickens buy if allowed to at Oklahoma State? What about Phil Knight at Oregon?

Excellent points. Which is why the NCAA needs to control this and reach a labor price that is paid and nobody can exceed that price no matter if you score 25 points per game or you are on the mop up squad that severs mostly as fodder during regular practices.

 

[ludin]

Well, everybody in a sport gets a minor in PE.

There. Solved it.

minor is not major it has to be related to your major PE is an elective. it does not count but i guess not reading allows you to make whatever claim you want.

 

[Threegoofs]

minor is not major it has to be related to your major PE is an elective. it does not count but i guess not reading allows you to make whatever claim you want.

Ok. PE is their major, often as part of a double major.

See how easy this is?

 

[ludin]

Ok. PE is their major, often as part of a double major.

See how easy this is?

i see how you avoid the facts.

 

[j-mac]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

Slavery's draw is we get to have these people doing important stuff and they get free room and board for life!

Add pay to that and you ruin it.....thanks libs...can't have anything can we?

You're equating college football to slavery? Really? :roll:

That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read.

 

[the_recruit]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

what do you think pay is? pay is compensation. i think you need to take a business class

I've never said otherwise.

Answer my question. Where did I say that I believe they "need to be paid" or "need to be compensated". Quote me exactly.

They already get pay. in the form of free education, free books, free room and board, paid trips, lodging, state of the art weight rooms and trainers.

Which further adds to how absurd the prohibition is.

When you add up the cost of 4 years it comes out to 100-120k in benefits that they receive currently tax free.

You just said they would be taxed $60k PER YEAR. $120k over 4 years is $30k per year. Why would they be taxed at 200%.? You're just babbling incoherently. Try to hold a train of thought for more than a fraction of a second.

Why would they be taxed?

That's not what I asked. I asked "why would they be taxed AT 50-60 PERCENT". And now you're implying they'd be taxed at 200%.

because the IRS considers it income that is why they would be taxed.

See above.

Your ranting and conflicting yourself so no one can understand your argument.

I completely believe it appears that way to you.

 

[the_recruit]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

Those are just the top 10 or so programs look at schools like West Virginia who was $12 million in the hole last season, Mizzou lost $16 mil, OSU lost $9 mil, Kansas lost $8 mil, UNT lost $7 mil, ASU lost $6 mil, Iowa lost $6 mil, Wash St. lost $5 mil, Utah lost $3 mil. Most schools made a very small profit or none at all.

I've already addressed this objection. So what? Why does that mean there needs to be a prohibition by the NCAA on athletes being paid for their work?

 

[Threegoofs]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

You're equating college football to slavery? Really? :roll:

That has to be the dumbest thing I have ever read.

Not getting analogies is a demonstration of much dumber intellect....FYI.

 

[RiverDad]

Then how will universities compete for the top recruits? Boosters, of course, and their nefarious ways will suddenly become fully legal.

And how many athletes can T. Boone Pickens buy if allowed to at Oklahoma State? What about Phil Knight at Oregon?

I'd rather have these rich guys blowing their money on supporting college bowl teams than injecting it into the political system. Like 1,000,000 times more preference. Let these rich buggers compete against each other this way.

 

[the_recruit]

I think it's ridiculous. They aren't paid employees. It doesn't make any sense to me at all.

The university offers compensation (in the form of scholarship money) in exchange for a service (playing football for the university's team). That's the colloquial definition of employment.

Does this mean no more scholarships?

Of course not.

What exactly do they hope to accomplish with unionizing I wonder?

Long term goal would be to use collective bargaining to break the NCAA's ban on college athletes being paid outright to play the game.

It's not like they get benefits or wages.

They get lots of benefits. They would like to have the opportunity to be paid outright for their service.

 

[the_recruit]

So does the center back on the women's soccer team make as much as the quarterback of the Alabama football team?

Let the market decide. My guess is nope.

 

[ludin]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

I've already addressed this objection. So what? Why does that mean there needs to be a prohibition by the NCAA on athletes being paid for their work?

they are getting payment in the form of education or are you going to continue saying that they don't?

 

[ludin]

Let the market decide. My guess is nope.

they are not employee's so there is no market. they are students first athletes second.

without grades they don't play.

 

[ludin]

The university offers compensation (in the form of scholarship money) in exchange for a service (playing football for the university's team). That's the colloquial definition of employment.

30 years of court rulings disagree with you.

there reasoning was. a scholarship offer does not read like an employment. there i no contract of employment. the school offered no job or opened any job pertaining to the position or a promise of employment for the student.

the fact that the labor board ignored already established law is astounding. this will go to court and they will get overturned.
they are not employee's.

they are students. their scholarship offers are dependent on them getting into school taking and passing classes.

Of course not.



Long term goal would be to use collective bargaining to break the NCAA's ban on college athletes being paid outright to play the game.



They get lots of benefits. They would like to have the opportunity to be paid outright for their service.

school doesn't need to bargain with anyone. they simply pull all scholarship and make football playing voluntary.

 

[Blue_State]

Are they going to pay taxes on these scholarships? I think they are going to have too since the scholarship is the source of income that made them paid employees. This could backfire.

 

[RiverDad]

school doesn't need to bargain with anyone. they simply pull all scholarship and make football playing voluntary.

And a legal union has the right to picket. Try using a stadium which is blockaded by picketers. No home games, maybe no team of players, meanwhile the coach and staff still need to be paid millions of dollars for doing nothing.

 

[ChrisL]

The university offers compensation (in the form of scholarship money) in exchange for a service (playing football for the university's team). That's the colloquial definition of employment.



Of course not.



Long term goal would be to use collective bargaining to break the NCAA's ban on college athletes being paid outright to play the game.



They get lots of benefits. They would like to have the opportunity to be paid outright for their service.

Why should that be the case though? They aren't professional athletes, and they are playing to represent their school and, in the case of a scholarship, have already been paid in a way to play. I don't see how this really is of benefit, especially to college sports in general.

 

[Threegoofs]

30 years of court rulings disagree with you.

there reasoning was. a scholarship offer does not read like an employment. there i no contract of employment. the school offered no job or opened any job pertaining to the position or a promise of employment for the student.

the fact that the labor board ignored already established law is astounding. this will go to court and they will get overturned.
they are not employee's.

they are students. their scholarship offers are dependent on them getting into school taking and passing classes.




school doesn't need to bargain with anyone. they simply pull all scholarship and make football playing voluntary.

Hmm. A decision by a board of people who are specifically educated in Labor Law vs. a guy too lazy to use the shift key.

I'm going with the NLRB on this one.

 

[Crovax]

Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

I've already addressed this objection. So what? Why does that mean there needs to be a prohibition by the NCAA on athletes being paid for their work?

because clearly that means their work isn't that valuable economically and that scholarships plus the potential for future earnings are very good compensation in relationship to work preformed