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Thread: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Napoleon View Post
    Apparently its you who doesn't know what they're talking about. The vast majority of athletic programs are heavily subsidized/funded by the universities with educational funds and student tuition and fees.
    they the fee's allow the students into the games all year and the price is discounted.
    most athletic departments don't make that much money and now people want to expend more by paying players.

    your tuition money goes to pay for teachers, labs, libraries. the activity fee does go to the sports department in exchange for being able to attend games.
    what you also don't understand is that football and sometimes basketball basically pay for all other sports the college offers.

    They have to pay for those scholarships as well and it comes out of the athletic department on the whole. football is just the biggest part of that department as it brings in the most money. they have other coaches that need paid and other scholarships that are offered.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    How is this different than what goes on in the NFL? The Bears have a payroll of $104,583,933 compared to $53,446,196 for the Raiders.
    the point of college is being a student not a football player. this isn't the NFL. hence the term student athlete. NFL are paid professionals.
    college they are still learning more advanced fundamentals

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    they the fee's allow the students into the games all year and the price is discounted.
    most athletic departments don't make that much money and now people want to expend more by paying players.

    your tuition money goes to pay for teachers, labs, libraries. the activity fee does go to the sports department in exchange for being able to attend games.
    what you also don't understand is that football and sometimes basketball basically pay for all other sports the college offers.

    They have to pay for those scholarships as well and it comes out of the athletic department on the whole. football is just the biggest part of that department as it brings in the most money. they have other coaches that need paid and other scholarships that are offered.
    Why should coaches earn such high salaries? If we're talking about sacrifices being endured for the benefit of the college, why not pay coaches what schools pay junior faculty in the English department?

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    It would be interesting to see how the IRS treats these new "employees" and their untaxed perks.
    as long as they are students all money is giving as grants in lew of. IE it is not taxed.

    now if they want paid with stipends and all this other stuff then it is taxable, and they have to be taxed. however if they want to be treated as employee's then they are treated as employee's and that 100k in benefits that they receive would be considered income by the IRS.

    so i really do hope that they have the money to pay the taxes.
    this is why they are students. they do not understand the bigger picture.

    Legal issues could arise from paying student-athletes - ESPN

    considering them as employee's opens the schools up to other legal issues from lawsuits to major taxation.

    the biggest case against this (which has already been hashed out in court several times.) in all instances the courts have found that these guys are not employee's. so how the labor board ignores about 30 years of court rulings is beyond me to begin with.

    Waldrep v. Texas Employers Insurance Association.

    it went through several appeals and waldrep lost.

    In affirming the jury's decision, a state appeals court listed all the ways in which Waldrep did not qualify as a university employee. Among them: the letter of intent and financial aid paperwork signed by Waldrep and TCU did not constitute an employment contract. Financial aid did not represent income. TCU did not pay a salary or promise one; did not withhold taxes; and did not tell Waldrep he was or would become an employee.

    They are not employee's and never were. they are students that play a sport.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    the point of college is being a student not a football player. this isn't the NFL. hence the term student athlete. NFL are paid professionals.
    college they are still learning more advanced fundamentals
    And players in baseball's minor leagues are also honing their skills and they're getting paid.

    Besides, we're looking at collusion of some sort in play here between college football and professional football. The NFL won't draft any player directly from HS, they have to be out of HS for 3 years. That forces the hands of talented players to play college ball and every time they go out on the field they run the risk of suffering a career-ending injury. The NBA will draft from high school but won't let the player onto the court until he is 19 and one year removed from HS. MLB still drafts from HS, though not as frequently, but the players who are drafted create more value than expected from their draft slots. In other words, MLB allows talent to rise naturally rather than forcing players to give away their skills for free. The NHL still drafts from HS also without forcing players to give away their talents for free.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Why should coaches earn such high salaries? If we're talking about sacrifices being endured for the benefit of the college, why not pay coaches what schools pay junior faculty in the English department?
    it is a niche market. they have a talent that other people don't and good coaches are hard to find. it is the same difference as the guy that does tech support (junior faculty) and the IT manager (coach). there are far more people that can become junior faculty than can become good coaches.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    it is a niche market. they have a talent that other people don't and good coaches are hard to find. it is the same difference as the guy that does tech support (junior faculty) and the IT manager (coach). there are far more people that can become junior faculty than can become good coaches.
    Precisely. And talent on the field works the same way as talent in the coaching ranks. So if coaches shouldn't be shortchanged and paid what they're worth to the organization, then why treat players any differently?

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    And players in baseball's minor leagues are also honing their skills and they're getting paid.

    Besides, we're looking at collusion of some sort in play here between college football and professional football. The NFL won't draft any player directly from HS, they have to be out of HS for 3 years. That forces the hands of talented players to play college ball and every time they go out on the field they run the risk of suffering a career-ending injury. The NBA will draft from high school but won't let the player onto the court until he is 19 and one year removed from HS. MLB still drafts from HS, though not as frequently, but the players who are drafted create more value than expected from their draft slots. In other words, MLB allows talent to rise naturally rather than forcing players to give away their skills for free. The NHL still drafts from HS also without forcing players to give away their talents for free.
    I remember when this wasn't the case i think it was sometime in the 90's the NCAA change the rule that college athletes had to have at least 3 years of schooling. The reason for this was kids were leaving their sophomore year in college for the pro's washing out and had nothing to fall back on. at least with 3 years of college they will have a better back ground and can always come back and finish. it was a smart move by the NCAA and reinforces the idea that they are suppose to be there for college degree's.

    while yes they can draft out of high school almost none of them do.

    they know the risks of drafting kids like that and the issues of them washing out to early. while they can do it most only draft out of college. they want to see how the kids do against better competition.

    plus i think college they have to wait their sophomore year as well.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by RiverDad View Post
    Precisely. And talent on the field works the same way as talent in the coaching ranks. So if coaches shouldn't be shortchanged and paid what they're worth to the organization, then why treat players any differently?
    they are already compensated in the 100k of dollars they get in tuition, gyms and other benefits all non-taxed. if you pay them or treat them like employee's all that is now taxable according to the IRS.

    how many college students do you know that have the money to pay taxes on 100K?

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    they are already compensated in the 100k of dollars they get in tuition, gyms and other benefits all non-taxed. if you pay them or treat them like employee's all that is now taxable according to the IRS.

    how many college students do you know that have the money to pay taxes on 100K?
    The scholarship definitely counts as a form of compensation. For many players, especially those who won't make it into the pros, it might be enough and they may well see it as a fair trade. Obviously the players at Northwestern didn't see it that way. They think that they're worth more than what they're getting. Shouldn't people be able to bargain for more if they think that they're worth more? Isn't that standard conservative-libertarian principle in play?

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