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Thread: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    This post is ridiculous.

    They shouldn’t get a damn thing? Do you have any idea what it's like to be a D1 athlete? Do you have any idea what they go through?

    When you're a D1 athlete, your sport is your job and the NCAA owns you. Everything you do is held under a microscope. You're held to a code of conduct that is vastly more restrictive than what other students are subjected to. For example, if you're under scholarship then you can't make more than $2k in a YEAR. At the start of every year you're given a book that details all of these restrictions. It's about an inch thick. Violate anything and there will be serious consequences.

    I'm sorry, but these kids deserve some protection. The pros get signing bonuses and guaranteed contracts. If they get hurt, they get paid. If you're working in an office and fall down the stairs; you get paid. But if a student athlete gets hurt.. poof, there goes the scholarship. Oh, and don't expect any help if you have lasting effects from these injuries.

    Lets face it; there are a lot of student athletes. But there are also a lot of athletes forced to pretend to be students. Why do we go through this charade? Minor league baseball players get paid. College football and basketball are essentially the minor leagues; albeit vastly more popular and profitable. Don't take advantage of them because they're too young to know better.
    I'm sorry, is someone forcing them to go through it?

    Right, mighty fine line between failure and success, just like in life.

    That's the difference between collegiate and pro

    I agree some are there because of their brawn instead of their brain.

    Playing collegiate sports is a privilege not at right.
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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    This post is ridiculous.

    They shouldn’t get a damn thing? Do you have any idea what it's like to be a D1 athlete? Do you have any idea what they go through?

    When you're a D1 athlete, your sport is your job and the NCAA owns you. Everything you do is held under a microscope. You're held to a code of conduct that is vastly more restrictive than what other students are subjected to. For example, if you're under scholarship then you can't make more than $2k in a YEAR. At the start of every year you're given a book that details all of these restrictions. It's about an inch thick. Violate anything and there will be serious consequences.

    I'm sorry, but these kids deserve some protection. The pros get signing bonuses and guaranteed contracts. If they get hurt, they get paid. If you're working in an office and fall down the stairs; you get paid. But if a student athlete gets hurt.. poof, there goes the scholarship. Oh, and don't expect any help if you have lasting effects from these injuries.

    Lets face it; there are a lot of student athletes. But there are also a lot of athletes forced to pretend to be students. Why do we go through this charade? Minor league baseball players get paid. College football and basketball are essentially the minor leagues; albeit vastly more popular and profitable. Don't take advantage of them because they're too young to know better.
    I especially love the stories of how the NCAA can sell jerseys with the kid's name on it and make $100 per jersey, but the kid gets nothing. And the kid cant even SIGN the jersey for money - he signs them for free and they double or triple in value. The colleges, of course, are free to sell signed memorabilia all they want for a profit. Schools will sell a dinner in an auction as a fund raiser with their football star for $20k.... but the player doesnt get that money.

    Its a joke of a system. We need to get sports out of college and make these teams private entities loosely affilliated with each University. That way we can still pretend that Duke has a basketball team and Alabama has a football team and we can stop pretending they are 'student-athletes'.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    I'm sorry, is someone forcing them to go through it?

    Right, mighty fine line between failure and success, just like in life.

    That's the difference between collegiate and pro

    I agree some are there because of their brawn instead of their brain.

    Playing collegiate sports is a privilege not at right.
    Do you want that logic to be applied to your job? No one is forcing you to work there.

    Sorry for the tone, but the part of your post that pissed me off the most was the talk of purity of the game. You talk about college sports as personal entertainment, and argue against changes because you might not enjoy it as much.

    That sounds to me like a tacit admission that college sports is a product. If an exceptional undergraduate scholar works as an intern when they're going to school, they can make damn good money. But an even more exceptional athlete isn't allowed to make money, and doesn't have any recourse because the NCAA has a monopoly. If you want to play for the NFL, you HAVE to go to college. There aren't any other options. It's a racket and it needs to change.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    I especially love the stories of how the NCAA can sell jerseys with the kid's name on it and make $100 per jersey, but the kid gets nothing. And the kid cant even SIGN the jersey for money - he signs them for free and they double or triple in value. The colleges, of course, are free to sell signed memorabilia all they want for a profit. Schools will sell a dinner in an auction as a fund raiser with their football star for $20k.... but the player doesnt get that money.

    Its a joke of a system. We need to get sports out of college and make these teams private entities loosely affilliated with each University. That way we can still pretend that Duke has a basketball team and Alabama has a football team and we can stop pretending they are 'student-athletes'.
    The kid can choose not to play. Or, he can choose to work full-time and pay for the schooling himself, or his parents can take a mortgage out on the house to pay for his $250,000 education.

    This is not forced labor. In fact, and I know this is crazy, some of the kids think the football is really fun, but tend to let the schoolwork go undone. Shocking, I know.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Couple of points here.


    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    (1.)They are not joined in the rest of the world. Maybe that's why the education standards in other countries seem to be so much better.

    (2.)But this is about greed. (3.)It's about the NCAA getting free labor (4.)and having no problems with colleges fielding football teams of academically weak players who will never graduate.
    1. What exactly does "Joined with the rest of the world" mean? And are you saying that other countries don't have sports programs?

    2. I agree it is about "greed", as silly as this whole income equality is, IMHO, the greed being displayed here is on the part of the Unionizing players part. When they agree to accept entry on scholarship to a University, they stipulate that they are under certain rules as outlined clearly in the Universities/NCAA rules books. Plus, if they don't understand something, there are "compliance offices" at every campus. Notre Dame's for example is outlined here:

    http://www3.nd.edu/~ncaacomp/documen...ParentsBro.pdf

    3. For their "Labor", which btw, most athletes making it to a top tier school, and making the team, is an achievement that many kids never reach, and not only leaves them in every consideration for entry into the NFL, but is exposure that only the elite players in the country enjoy. But, they are receiving a full scholarship in return for their participation in the sports program of the school. Notre Dame again for instance tuition and fees equals $44,000 per year, that's $176,000 for the 4 years to receive a degree from the University. Which if it is a college like ND that we are talking about, and they leave the school with a Bachelor's, can typically expect to be among the top entry earners in the country with a Bachelor's.

    So if you ask me, the ones being "greedy" here are those looking to extort through the union threats money over and above what they already agreed to. If I were the person in charge of overseeing these people, I'd boot them out on their ear, pull their scholarships, and bill them for class time already completed.

    4. "Academically weak", and "will never graduate" are two totally different things. There are many people that are Academically weak, but do graduate, and go on to good careers. As far as will never graduate goes, the NCAA, as well as the University have standards that the student athlete must achieve to be eligible to play. For instance, and back to ND.

    "student-athletes must maintain certain academic standards to be eligible for competition. in addition
    to NCAA rules that require student-athletes to maintain “progress toward a degree,” Notre Dame holds
    its student-athletes to increased academic standards. To be eligible under NCAA rules, your son must
    be enrolled in a minimum full-time program of studies (i.e., 12 credit hours) and must pass 6 credit
    hours each semester. As student-athletes progress through each semester, they are required to meet
    additional NCAA academic requirements.

    Pursuant to Notre Dame’s Academic Code, your son must maintain a 1.7 GPA during the first semester
    of his first year, a 1.85 GPA during the second semester of his first year, and a 2.0 GPA in each semester
    thereafter. failure to meet those GPA requirements will land your son on academic probation. Although
    academic probation normally renders a student ineligible to compete during the following semester,
    student-athletes who end the spring semester on academic probation may regain their eligibility for
    fall by achieving certain grades during the summer session. it is also important to note that Notre
    Dame’s Academic Code calls for automatic academic dismissal from Notre Dame if your son has
    two consecutive or three non-consecutive semesters on academic probation.

    Academic eligibility rules are complex. The Compliance office partners with Academic services for
    student-Athletes to ensure that your son is tracking on all of the requirements. feel free to contact
    either the Compliance office or your son’s academic counselor for additional information."

    This is from the earlier link provided. And if you think that it's just lip service,

    "SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- Former Notre Dame starting quarterback Everett Golson said he used "poor judgment on a test," which is what got him suspended for the fall semester.

    Everett Golson, who was suspended this semester for violating the Notre Dame honor code, has two years of eligibility left and wants to return to play for the Irish. "Not necessarily to prove [anything] to anybody, just doing it for me," he said.

    "It wasn't due to poor grades or anything like that," he told Sports Illustrated in a video posted Tuesday by the magazine. Asked directly if he cheated on a test, Golson said: "Yeeeeeeeaaaahhh, something like that."

    "Like I said, I'm just going to leave it at poor judgment," he told the magazine. Asked again if it was cheating on a test, Golson responded: "Test situation."

    Everett Golson: Notre Dame suspension due to poor judgment on test - ESPN

    If it were just lip service, then I am sure the University would have brushed the incident under the rug.

    So, with all due respect, this attack by the younger generation liberals today on anyone, or any entity that makes more than THEY think should be made is, IMHO, silly.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Do you want that logic to be applied to your job? No one is forcing you to work there.

    Sorry for the tone, but the part of your post that pissed me off the most was the talk of purity of the game. You talk about college sports as personal entertainment, and argue against changes because you might not enjoy it as much.

    That sounds to me like a tacit admission that college sports is a product. If an exceptional undergraduate scholar works as an intern when they're going to school, they can make damn good money. But an even more exceptional athlete isn't allowed to make money, and doesn't have any recourse because the NCAA has a monopoly. If you want to play for the NFL, you HAVE to go to college. There aren't any other options. It's a racket and it needs to change.
    They're not earning a living they're being given an opportunity. Free education for sport performance. You seem to forget about the 25-40K in tuition, the 1000's in books, in room and board, in meals, and the stipend they receive each year as a result of their participation.

    I will agree that a change is needed, this however isn't the answer.
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. ” -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    This post is ridiculous.

    They shouldn’t get a damn thing? Do you have any idea what it's like to be a D1 athlete? Do you have any idea what they go through?

    When you're a D1 athlete, your sport is your job and the NCAA owns you. Everything you do is held under a microscope. You're held to a code of conduct that is vastly more restrictive than what other students are subjected to. For example, if you're under scholarship then you can't make more than $2k in a YEAR. At the start of every year you're given a book that details all of these restrictions. It's about an inch thick. Violate anything and there will be serious consequences.

    I'm sorry, but these kids deserve some protection. The pros get signing bonuses and guaranteed contracts. If they get hurt, they get paid. If you're working in an office and fall down the stairs; you get paid. But if a student athlete gets hurt.. poof, there goes the scholarship. Oh, and don't expect any help if you have lasting effects from these injuries.

    Lets face it; there are a lot of student athletes. But there are also a lot of athletes forced to pretend to be students. Why do we go through this charade? Minor league baseball players get paid. College football and basketball are essentially the minor leagues; albeit vastly more popular and profitable. Don't take advantage of them because they're too young to know better.
    Then maybe the ingrates should drop out, and start their own minor league for football. Or jump off to Canada and play there.

    The only part that should be under consideration, is some kind of fund to mitigate injuries incurred by the player in the course of playing the game for the school.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Couple of points here.




    1. What exactly does "Joined with the rest of the world" mean? And are you saying that other countries don't have sports programs?

    2. I agree it is about "greed", as silly as this whole income equality is, IMHO, the greed being displayed here is on the part of the Unionizing players part. When they agree to accept entry on scholarship to a University, they stipulate that they are under certain rules as outlined clearly in the Universities/NCAA rules books. Plus, if they don't understand something, there are "compliance offices" at every campus. Notre Dame's for example is outlined here:

    http://www3.nd.edu/~ncaacomp/documen...ParentsBro.pdf

    3. For their "Labor", which btw, most athletes making it to a top tier school, and making the team, is an achievement that many kids never reach, and not only leaves them in every consideration for entry into the NFL, but is exposure that only the elite players in the country enjoy. But, they are receiving a full scholarship in return for their participation in the sports program of the school. Notre Dame again for instance tuition and fees equals $44,000 per year, that's $176,000 for the 4 years to receive a degree from the University. Which if it is a college like ND that we are talking about, and they leave the school with a Bachelor's, can typically expect to be among the top entry earners in the country with a Bachelor's.

    So if you ask me, the ones being "greedy" here are those looking to extort through the union threats money over and above what they already agreed to. If I were the person in charge of overseeing these people, I'd boot them out on their ear, pull their scholarships, and bill them for class time already completed.
    these are workers in a workplace who have just formed a bargaining unit
    the employer will lose big if it refuses to negotiate in good faith. booting the players out, revoking their scholarships, and billing them for their accrued scholarship expenditures would hardly be viewed by the folks at DoL who oversee labor relations activities as negotiating in good faith, as is required by federal law

    4. "Academically weak", and "will never graduate" are two totally different things. There are many people that are Academically weak, but do graduate, and go on to good careers. As far as will never graduate goes, the NCAA, as well as the University have standards that the student athlete must achieve to be eligible to play. For instance, and back to ND.

    "student-athletes must maintain certain academic standards to be eligible for competition. in addition
    to NCAA rules that require student-athletes to maintain “progress toward a degree,” Notre Dame holds
    its student-athletes to increased academic standards. To be eligible under NCAA rules, your son must
    be enrolled in a minimum full-time program of studies (i.e., 12 credit hours) and must pass 6 credit
    hours each semester. As student-athletes progress through each semester, they are required to meet
    additional NCAA academic requirements.

    Pursuant to Notre Dame’s Academic Code, your son must maintain a 1.7 GPA during the first semester
    of his first year, a 1.85 GPA during the second semester of his first year, and a 2.0 GPA in each semester
    thereafter. failure to meet those GPA requirements will land your son on academic probation. Although
    academic probation normally renders a student ineligible to compete during the following semester,
    student-athletes who end the spring semester on academic probation may regain their eligibility for
    fall by achieving certain grades during the summer session. it is also important to note that Notre
    Dame’s Academic Code calls for automatic academic dismissal from Notre Dame if your son has
    two consecutive or three non-consecutive semesters on academic probation.

    Academic eligibility rules are complex. The Compliance office partners with Academic services for
    student-Athletes to ensure that your son is tracking on all of the requirements. feel free to contact
    either the Compliance office or your son’s academic counselor for additional information."

    This is from the earlier link provided. And if you think that it's just lip service,

    "SOUTH BEND, Ind. -- Former Notre Dame starting quarterback Everett Golson said he used "poor judgment on a test," which is what got him suspended for the fall semester.

    Everett Golson, who was suspended this semester for violating the Notre Dame honor code, has two years of eligibility left and wants to return to play for the Irish. "Not necessarily to prove [anything] to anybody, just doing it for me," he said.

    "It wasn't due to poor grades or anything like that," he told Sports Illustrated in a video posted Tuesday by the magazine. Asked directly if he cheated on a test, Golson said: "Yeeeeeeeaaaahhh, something like that."

    "Like I said, I'm just going to leave it at poor judgment," he told the magazine. Asked again if it was cheating on a test, Golson responded: "Test situation."

    Everett Golson: Notre Dame suspension due to poor judgment on test - ESPN

    If it were just lip service, then I am sure the University would have brushed the incident under the rug.

    So, with all due respect, this attack by the younger generation liberals today on anyone, or any entity that makes more than THEY think should be made is, IMHO, silly.
    have no idea what point you were attempting to make there
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    these are workers in a workplace who have just formed a bargaining unit
    the employer will lose big if it refuses to negotiate in good faith. booting the players out, revoking their scholarships, and billing them for their accrued scholarship expenditures would hardly be viewed by the folks at DoL who oversee labor relations activities as negotiating in good faith, as is required by federal law
    So, if they are workers, should their scholarship, room and board, etc, be taxable compensation?

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Then maybe the ingrates should drop out, and start their own minor league for football. Or jump off to Canada and play there.

    The only part that should be under consideration, is some kind of fund to mitigate injuries incurred by the player in the course of playing the game for the school.
    and some do that. I had a cousin who was a pitcher in HS. He had the KC Royals, the Cards, and the Cubs all wanting him right out of HS to join their farm systems. All offered more money than he'd ever seen to go with them, he also was offered several free rides to different colleges. He chose the free ride.

    Well, second year in the school's trainer ruined his arm. Tore the hell out of his shoulder and his pitching career was finished. They still honored his scholarship all the way til graduation.

    I know not all schools do this, but they all should.
    "Oh no no no, you got me talkin' politics. I didn't wanna. Like I said y'all, I'm just happy to be alive. ” -- Sheriff Chris Mannix

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