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Thread: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    This is a common misstatement that I've been guilty of myself.

    The FOOTBALL PROGRAM earns the university tremendous amounts of money, but that is the result of years and years of tradition and lore that the alumni and fan base of the university have built, not the kids currently on the team. They had absolutely nothing to do with it.

    Instead, they get the opportunity and honor to attend a prestigious university and be at the center of all that tradition for a brief spell, and perhaps get the chance to showcase themselves FOR FREE and catch the fancy of the NFL. It's all been laid out for them before they were even born.

    The players are somewhat interchangeable. Swap Alabama's roster with Auburn or Florida, and the finances don't really change. It's not like the current Alabama players devised, created, promoted, and earned that money themselves. They just were next up for the chance to be a part of it.
    Lol! Good post. That's basically what I was trying to say too. You worded it much better than me though.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    You say this like its a bad thing.

    College should not be a place for major sports. Period.
    The Dept. of Ed. disagrees with you.

    "Playing sports at any level—club, intramural, or interscholastic—can be a key part of the school experience and have an immense and lasting impact on a student’s life. Among its many benefits, participation in extracurricular athletic activities promotes socialization, the development of leadership skills, focus, and, of course, physical fitness."

    Arne Duncan is U.S. Secretary of Education

    We Must Provide Equal Opportunity in Sports to Students with Disabilities | ED.gov Blog

    This one is more about High School level, but the goals are likely the same...

    "A new study from the University of Kansas suggests that there’s a simpler, more universal way to motivate students: Give them a reason to come to school—even if that reason has nothing to do with academics. University of Kansas’s Angela Lumpkin and Rebecca Achen analyzed high-school testing, graduation, and attendance data and found that Kansas’s student athletes go to school more often than non-athletes. They also have higher graduation rates: 98 percent of athletes in Kansas’s class of 2012 graduated, compared with 90 percent of non-athletes."

    Athletes Are More Likely to Finish High School Than Non-Athletes - Eleanor Barkhorn - The Atlantic

    There is plenty of study that shows that sports programs molds the leaders of tomorrow. I can't understand why anyone would want to do away with them.
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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    You mean someone who crushes your illogical statements regularly?
    That you arrogantly think something like this is a troubling attitude. I feel sorry for you.

    I'm sure I'd be like most people you meet and just smile, nod, and get away quickly.
    I can only tell you that in person I am a pretty neutral guy...You'd be hard pressed to determine my politics outside this board, largely because I don't like to focus on that in person. (It can lead to arguments) I like to get along with people and have a good time. With this post you strike me as the person that always has to talk shop when it comes to your ideological viewpoints, causing those around you probably to often roll their eyes, and move to a different part of gatherings.

    Believe it or not, I have many liberal friends, and I have found that while most people on an anonymous message board try to put up a tough persona, when in person they take one of two possible paths. Either they are annoying jerks that can't have fun and leave politics at the door, or they are more level headed in their responses when discussing politics face to face, because of factors, not the least of which is people don't like to hang around assholes.

    I can only hope that the gruff, tough guy persona's displayed in here by some, aren't carried out in person, because even though I disagree with many libs, socialists, progressives..etc. on this site, I genuinely think that behind the mask most in here are nice people, and would enjoy many things in common apart from our perspective political views....I am truly sorry you don't think so.
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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Why? Do you remember a time when they weren't? Face it, this is about greed and it's a really stupid idea that isn't going to help anyone except for a few college athletes who are ALREADY receiving benefits (a free education on scholarship funding for one). Also, being on a great college team is going to get you noticed by the scouts, which opens the door for the professional leagues. THAT alone is a valuable benefit. So why these guys and girls who voluntarily join sports teams are now complaining, I have NO idea. And why are they different from high school teams? Do you consider high school football players professional and should they be able to unionize too?
    They are not joined in the rest of the world. Maybe that's why the education standards in other countries seem to be so much better.

    But this is about greed. It's about the NCAA getting free labor and having no problems with colleges fielding football teams of academically weak players who will never graduate.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    This is a common misstatement that I've been guilty of myself.

    The FOOTBALL PROGRAM earns the university tremendous amounts of money, but that is the result of years and years of tradition and lore that the alumni and fan base of the university have built, not the kids currently on the team. They had absolutely nothing to do with it.
    You really believe that? What happens when these kids aren't winning games for their universities? The programs stop getting as much funding and the programs die off. Your statement is like saying that music performers don't actually make money and it's all their managers. People go to see the players win, not the specifics of the program - the players don't win? The program is useless and worthless no matter how much lore and tradition has gone into it.

    You have the same thing at a professional level. The Cubs - how much history do they have? The Pirates? Each have about 200 years between them. Where are their fans? Non-existent really - and how much money and tradition have gone into those teams? About the same if not more than any football team - yet where are their salary caps today? Lol - this appeal to tradition as the foundation of these programs is nonsense. These programs are founded on the backs of kids who win and if they want a piece of the tens of millions of dollars they make for their universities, I see no issue with that.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 04-01-14 at 03:53 PM.
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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You really believe that? What happens when these kids aren't winning games for their universities? The programs stop getting as much funding and the programs die off.
    It works the other way. First one gets alumni with deep pockets, then one gets a good football team. Boosters pay a coach's salary.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    You really believe that? What happens when these kids aren't winning games for their universities? The programs stop getting as much funding and the programs die off. Your statement is like saying that music performers don't actually make money and it's all their managers. People go to see the players win, not the specifics of the program - the players don't win? The program is useless and worthless no matter how much lore and tradition has gone into it.

    You have the same thing at a professional level. The Cubs - how much history do they have? The Pirates? Each have about 200 years between them. Where are their fans? Non-existent really - and how much money and tradition have gone into those teams? About the same if not more than any football team - yet where are their salary caps today? Lol - this appeal to tradition as the foundation of these programs is nonsense. These programs are founded on the backs of kids who win and if they want a piece of the tens of millions of dollars they make for their universities, I see no issue with that.

    Cubs fans are non-existent? Wow, you've never been to Chicago. Tickets are hard to come by.

    And tell me of the big college football programs who have seen their programs die off. I must have missed that.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Cubs fans are non-existent? Wow, you've never been to Chicago. Tickets are hard to come by.

    And tell me of the big college football programs who have seen their programs die off. I must have missed that.
    20 College Football Programs on the Decline

    The Buffaloes' move to the Pac-12 has only made the team's recent struggles that much more visible to the rest of the nation. The program won the National Championship in 1990, but it hasn't been bowl eligible since 2007.
    Read more at 20 College Football Programs on the Decline
    The storied Volunteers have become a running joke since firing longtime coach Phillip Fulmer in 2008. His replacements - Lane Kiffin and Derek Dooley - did nothing to bring the program back to prominence. Kiffin didn't stick around long enough, and he caused too many problems with the NCAA that the Vols are still paying for, and Dooley just didn't have the coaching chops to go headset to headset with the likes of Les Miles and Nick Saban.
    Read more at 20 College Football Programs on the Decline
    The Mountaineers' decline started partway through the 2012 season, when the team won five straight and climbed the polls, then dropped the following five games. Instead of another Orange Bowl exhibition, WVU is headed to the New Era Pinstripe Bowl to face former Big East foe Syracuse.
    Read more at 20 College Football Programs on the Decline
    Financial woes and infighting threaten Grambling football program - College Football - George Dohrmann - SI.com

    Near the start of the 2013 season, the Grambling Legends, a group unaffiliated with the school, put up $11,000 to buy replacement flooring for the weight room. Doug Williams, then the Tigers coach -- as well as a popular alumnus, a former Super Bowl MVP and a member of the Grambling Legends -- helped arrange the purchase of the new rubber flooring, just as he had done last summer with new flooring for the team's locker room. Williams had a history of ruffling administrative feathers at the school -- in April 2012 he sued Grambling State for performance bonuses he says he was owed -- and he often circumvented the athletic department's chain of command. The funds to pay for the new weight room floor, which had not been filtered through the school's foundation as Pogue and athletic director Aaron James demanded, were yet another instance of that.

    Read More: Financial woes and infighting threaten Grambling football program - College Football - George Dohrmann - SI.com
    College sports' financial disparity keeps growing in NCAA's Division I

    Among the top 100 schools, the 22 that had a surplus in 2011 nearly quadrupled their excess since 2005. The remaining schools did not generate enough to cover their operating expenses; their median deficit was 67% higher than in 2005.
    Seriously, this is nothing new. Again, the kids don't win? The school doesn't make money. The kids win? The school gets endorsement deals, free perks, donations etc.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Hatuey, I'm not talking about on a decline regarding the success of the program. Some schools are a mess when it comes to administration and coaching. That's part of the sport.

    I'm talking financially, and I don't consider a small handful of schools like Grambling, which has HUGE financial issues across the board, to be pertinent to this at all.

    In fact, if Grambling players unionized and the school had to pay them, that program would fold before dinner.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Outside of a free ride and a generous stipend, these kids shouldn't get a damn thing. They already get free generous gourmet meals provided 4 times daily(I almost did the providing but turned the position down for a more lucrative offer...)

    They're there to learn and to showcase themselves for the chance to go pro. Anything else sullies the game.

    Gonna have to spit out the window next time I go past Ryan Field...

    Ridiculous...
    This post is ridiculous.

    They shouldn’t get a damn thing? Do you have any idea what it's like to be a D1 athlete? Do you have any idea what they go through?

    When you're a D1 athlete, your sport is your job and the NCAA owns you. Everything you do is held under a microscope. You're held to a code of conduct that is vastly more restrictive than what other students are subjected to. For example, if you're under scholarship then you can't make more than $2k in a YEAR. At the start of every year you're given a book that details all of these restrictions. It's about an inch thick. Violate anything and there will be serious consequences.

    I'm sorry, but these kids deserve some protection. The pros get signing bonuses and guaranteed contracts. If they get hurt, they get paid. If you're working in an office and fall down the stairs; you get paid. But if a student athlete gets hurt.. poof, there goes the scholarship. Oh, and don't expect any help if you have lasting effects from these injuries.

    Lets face it; there are a lot of student athletes. But there are also a lot of athletes forced to pretend to be students. Why do we go through this charade? Minor league baseball players get paid. College football and basketball are essentially the minor leagues; albeit vastly more popular and profitable. Don't take advantage of them because they're too young to know better.

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