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Thread: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    no the just don't give scholarships. if they drop the football program they still have to pay the coaches buy out. so he is paid either way.
    Yes of course the buyout...if that's what you've been referring to. I'm referring to future contracts will be lower across the board if players start getting paid.



    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    also athletic departments are considered non-profit so there is no profit to spit with the players if they even wanted it.
    UMich brings in $6 mil in tickets against patsy state. Star players gonna demand $150k of that thru their new union. AD takes your path and puts to use walk ons instead? Make that $500k in ticket sales instead.

    What i think really happens? They drop tennis and a dozen other total revenue pitfalls

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    If you are referring to penn st. then call it penn st. that way people know what you are talking about.
    The reason they are still there is because they care about the students that are on scholarship. if they were to drop the football program all those kids would lose their scholarships.
    I'll call it what they deserve and no, it's still there the same reason they tried to not remove the damn statue, because it's a $ maker and they live for football. I'll grant you NW, but i think you're crazy if you're gonna say florida state or alabama is about to drop football for *anything* much less rather than sharing a small piece of the revenue with players.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    Not surprisingly you have no idea what a strawman actually is. I've repeatedly shown you how athletes on scholarships are effectively employees. You've even implicitly agreed by admitting that college athletes are effectively "paid". You're just don't have the wherewithal to connect the dots.
    and now we bring out the ad hominems. so between the strawmans and the ad homimens you can't actually address anything. thanks for backing this up.
    no scholarships do not make you an employee. it allows you to attend college. just like every court in the nation has ruled for 30 years.

    only because people like you claim they aren't. they received free schooling, a degree if they choose to graduate, along with all the other things for playing football and being a student.

    Yep. These are conditions of their (effective) employment. Just like I have to meet certain conditions to be employed at my job (and you at yours, assuming anyone is willing to employ you for anything).
    wrong it is conditions to play football. if they do not make the grades even in high school or the requirements to enroll in the college their scholarship is invalid.
    again ad hominem negates anything you have to say and pretty much makes you opinion irrelevant.

    Look, I can only repeat myself so many times. It's clear you're not able (or not willing) to understand it. Although it's been fun, I've wasted enough time slapping you around. Good day!
    Yep you can repeat yourself as much as you want you will be just as wrong the next time as you are this time.

    30 years of court rulings saying that students are not employee's.
    that there is nothing in any paper work that they sign that makes them employee's
    that the college has never given them any sign that they would become employee's

    tell you that you are simply wrong. the fact that you ignore this like others tells me that you refuses to educate yourself.
    that the only point you can try to make is to try and belittle someone.

    the only person you have slapped is yourself. since you have proven that you can't be honest and can only resort to insults in order to try and prove your point.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Yes of course the buyout...if that's what you've been referring to. I'm referring to future contracts will be lower across the board if players start getting paid.
    nope because good coaches won't take less. neither will their staff. in order to make up the windfall school will probably drop other non-revenue sports and be football basketball only.

    that or if they can't get that to work because of Title IX requirements they will simply drop the programs all together or like i said get rid of scholarships and kids that want to play football will do so.




    UMich brings in $6 mil in tickets against patsy state. Star players gonna demand $150k of that thru their new union. AD takes your path and puts to use walk ons instead? Make that $500k in ticket sales instead.
    again athletics departments are non-profit revenue is not profit. profit is what they make after expenses. so if they are non-profit they make 0 money by the end of the year so there is no sharing to have.

    What i think really happens? They drop tennis and a dozen other total revenue pitfalls
    they might not be able to title IX requirements.


    I'll call it what they deserve and no, it's still there the same reason they tried to not remove the damn statue, because it's a $ maker and they live for football. I'll grant you NW, but i think you're crazy if you're gonna say florida state or alabama is about to drop football for *anything* much less rather than sharing a small piece of the revenue with players.
    Then no one will know what you are talking about. the name of the school is penn st.
    they already do share revenue with the players.

    they get scholarships that is where those scholarships come from is the revenue brought in by the program.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    employers don't 'get' to 'let' the employees unionize
    employees have a 'right' of association to form a bargaining unit if the election results of the prospective bargaining unit employees indicate 50% plus one of them chose the union option
    Of course they do. They simply say to the football players, we aren't going to pay you. If you insist we'll end the football program. I once worked for a company with a big warehouse. The warehouse employees decided to organize. Management closed the warehouse and moved the stock to a private warehousing company. None of those employees were hired by the warehousing company. They were warned well in advance of their vote. They voted themselves out of a job.

    I think the solution for the universities is to drop out of the NCAA and let it go out of business. Let the booster clubs raise money and handle player compensation. The NCAA has messed up sports for a long time. Just put them to rest.

    I'd like to see university put emphasis on educating students rather than hiring them to play football.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no. you offered no real alternatives
    in contrast, the northwestern athletes did
    they now have an opportunity to negotiate for change in a way that no longer existed
    I did too offer a couple of alternatives. There can be salary caps on coaches and other incentives that help the college make money off the student athletes.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    No. I don't. Please explain it to me.
    Outright spending money on them, as opposed to offering a scholarship. Then, they aren't really "students" anymore. This would change the whole dynamic.

    Sorry that's already the way it is. The best athletes go to the top tier programs that can offer them huge scholarships and the chance to play in BCS bowls and get national exposure to NFL scouts. Little schools get the leftovers. That's the way it's been for a half century, it's nothing new.
    That is not necessarily the case because everyone can't get into the best colleges on a scholarship. Schools like Harvard and Yale don't have the BEST football teams either, so that is just not right at all.


    So? Why is it ridiculous?
    I think I and others have done a fair job of explaining that to you already. No need to repeat everything that's already been said.



    Student athlete is a bogus term invented by the NCAA. Universities are compensating athletes to perform a service that can generate tens of millions of dollars in profit for the school. Unless we get rid of athletic scholarships altogether, they are effectively professionals.
    Lol! They are not professionals. They are student athletes, some as young as 18 years old.



    How so? Like what?
    Good Lord, just look at the NFL. I can't believe someone has to explain this simple stuff.



    Why would this cause academics to suffer? It wouldn't force any school to spend a dime more on athletics then they want to.
    Again, I would think the answer here is quite obvious.

    The players can't force the school to do anything. If the player wants a big paycheck and the school doesn't want to pay him a big paycheck, then they're probably not going to make a deal.
    [

    Are you kidding me? With the force of a union behind them, they most certainly can. A lot of unions already do this.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    they already do share revenue with the players.

    they get scholarships that is where those scholarships come from is the revenue brought in by the program.
    let's be real, the reason chris webber and countless others bitch about it is they could not give 2 ****s about the 'education' or scholarship, except that the scholly is required for their pro career tryouts for a given year. What they want is cash plain and simple.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    There's also mention of players accusing the NCAA of not providing them adequate concussion protection. I agree with them on that point, but I still don't see why other rules could not be put into place regarding college athletic programs instead of the student athletes unionizing. I just think it's going to change college sports and not for the better and that allowing the students to unionize is blurring the lines between a student and an employee. Just because people (fans) willingly spend money to see these athletes play does not make them employees IMO, and that is where the money comes from, the fans.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by fmw View Post
    Of course they do. They simply say to the football players, we aren't going to pay you. If you insist we'll end the football program.
    and the federal labor relations board will step in and declare the employer to have violated federal labor law because it failed to negotiate in good faith

    bam!

    I once worked for a company with a big warehouse. The warehouse employees decided to organize. Management closed the warehouse and moved the stock to a private warehousing company. None of those employees were hired by the warehousing company. They were warned well in advance of their vote. They voted themselves out of a job.
    terrible comparison, exposing that you know nothing about labor requirements
    do you believe the university is going to contract out its football team as that company did its warehousing? absolutely absurd


    I think the solution for the universities is to drop out of the NCAA and let it go out of business.
    here's a clue: that will do nothing to end the unionization effort; an effort which in no way is reliant on the presence of the NCAA

    Let the booster clubs raise money and handle player compensation.
    only if that is what is agreed upon by the employer-university together with the players and their union. because that is the system in place for resolving disputes between employers and union represented employees: labor-management negotiation


    The NCAA has messed up sports for a long time. Just put them to rest.
    i disagree
    look at how far college athletics has come
    look at how much money is made
    look at the size of the fan base
    the NCAA has been great
    but more so to the employers than the players
    that's about to change

    I'd like to see university put emphasis on educating students rather than hiring them to play football.
    sporting events allow the alumni to stay connected- a part of - their schools
    follow the money. it's not going away
    the players will be better compensated and cared for, just as pro players after they established their own unions
    notice, pro ball did not go away either. it's stronger than it has ever been
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    and the federal labor relations board will step in and declare the employer to have violated federal labor law because it failed to negotiate in good faith

    bam!


    terrible comparison, exposing that you know nothing about labor requirements
    do you believe the university is going to contract out its football team as that company did its warehousing? absolutely absurd



    here's a clue: that will do nothing to end the unionization effort; an effort which in no way is reliant on the presence of the NCAA


    only if that is what is agreed upon by the employer-university together with the players and their union. because that is the system in place for resolving disputes between employers and union represented employees: labor-management negotiation



    i disagree
    look at how far college athletics has come
    look at how much money is made
    look at the size of the fan base
    the NCAA has been great
    but more so to the employers than the players
    that's about to change


    sporting events allow the alumni to stay connected- a part of - their schools
    follow the money. it's not going away
    the players will be better compensated and cared for, just as pro players after they established their own unions
    notice, pro ball did not go away either. it's stronger than it has ever been
    A lot of colleges are probably just going to end their scholarship programs for student athletes, and that's sad considering that some of them wouldn't be able to attend otherwise.

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