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Thread: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    nope. turtle dude offered the following posted opinion:


    and i asked him to share the legal basis for that opinion

    then you chimed in with your nonsense about me asking him to prove a negative


    now, go divide by zero while the rest of us with something to contribute continue this discussion
    Ok, so I am home now on the comp, and not on my phone, so first let me start by apologizing, I went back and read through everything, and I was wrong to accuse you of asking him to prove a negative...You didn't do that.

    With that said though, I don't think that the combative, accusatory tone is going to get the answers you want...heh, maybe I should take my own advice....
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    No evidently you don't understand what pay and compensation is. they are one in the same and can be anything in exchange for service.
    the students already get a payment for playing football.

    if they are employee's then that would be considered income as well. so not only will they pay taxes on what money they can try and squeeze out of the college, but they will have to pay taxes on the scholarships they receive also.

    so again your ranting is just that ranting. you don't know what you are talking about. compensation is pay period as defined by the IRS code itself.
    Call it whatever you want, I couldn't care less. There are undeniable differences between a scholarship and a paycheck. The whole debate over pay-for-play is predicated on this. Deny it all you want - You. Are. Wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    college's aren't going to pay high school student money to play football beyond what they do now. if that happens many school will just shut down their athletic departments as they can't afford the additional costs.
    Whether they do or not is completely irrelevant to the fact that the prohibition needs to be lifted. I've explained this many times already.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    of course you don't because it proves that you are wrong. that is why you don't.
    *yawn*

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    this is simple business. if the cost > value then you don't do it. this is where having business classes helps. there are things call ROI's.
    yes they will as athletic departments will come under major costs and liabilities.
    No ****, einstein. How many times do I have to explain this to you? No one is arguing that a school should pay any athlete more than his or her expected return. The argument is that NCAA ban should be lifted so that schools have the ability to choose whether or not to offer an athlete a paycheck. If the school determines that an athlete isn't going to generate much return, then OF COURSE they should choose to not offer him/her a paycheck. In fact, the vast majority of college athletes would never (and should never) get offered a paycheck for this very reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    they are students not employee's. nothing will change that fact. if they don't like the free education etc... they can pay for it like everyone else. no one says they have to play football it is completely voluntary on their part.
    More babble irrelevant to the fact that there is no reason for the NCAA to prohibit pay-for-play.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I see this as a REALLY bad idea. Colleges are going to be spending money to pay athletes. What's going to become of education in our universities?
    Colleges already spend a lot of money on athletes - scholarships, equipment, facilities, coaches and staff, personal trainers, the list goes on and on. Colleges are free to choose to spend however much or however little on athletics as they want. Lifting the ban wouldn't change this fact at all. If a college doesn't want to spend more money on athletics then they already do, fine, no one's going to force them, no one's even suggesting that they should.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    If that was the way it worked, Title IX would have never passed.
    Huh? Title IX doesn't have anything to do with the way in which free markets establish prices.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    Not really. The AD's aren't going to take a pay cut and neither will saban. so you can forget that.
    Really a backyard? you obviously have no clue about sports, training or practice.



    they don't have to drop the sport just the scholarships. then players are no longer employee's. if they want to play football it will be like high school. they play because they want to play. they will have to pay full tuition books and everything else out of their own pocket like normal students and football is an extra circular activity.

    ol well then all the other sports suffer. they will suffer anyway since the school if it decides to keep those programs open will get rid of non-revenue generating sports.

    Ivy league schools do not issue scholarships and haven't for a while.

    Will Northwestern University football unionize? - CNN.com

    the northwestern president already said if they unionize the school will drop Div I football.
    Pray tell me how the teams will be full of gimp volunteers yet saban and the AD don't take a pay cut? I mean who is gonna pay their salary? Who the hell is gonna keep paying $500 to see a bunch of walk ons? What TV network will dole out the big bucks for that? Your 'simple solution' really just sounds like high school v2

    Ivys don't give scholarships and 2 things come to mind right away: they don't have loans either (other kinds of finaid that amounts to the same thing) and they have an inherent recruiting tool - an elite education

    edit: NW prez is bluffing or could be serious - NW has always been terrible at football so few would care.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    Colleges already spend a lot of money on athletes - scholarships, equipment, facilities, coaches and staff, personal trainers, the list goes on and on. Colleges are free to choose to spend however much or however little on athletics as they want. Lifting the ban wouldn't change this fact at all. If a college doesn't want to spend more money on athletics then they already do, fine, no one's going to force them, no one's even suggesting that they should.
    because this has nothing to do with the topic. the topic is about student athletes being considered employee's it has nothing to do with NCAA rules.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by chromium View Post
    Pray tell me how the teams will be full of gimp volunteers yet saban and the AD don't take a pay cut? I mean who is gonna pay their salary? Who the hell is gonna keep paying $500 to see a bunch of walk ons? What TV network will dole out the big bucks for that? Your 'simple solution' really just sounds like high school v2

    Ivys don't give scholarships and 2 things come to mind right away: they don't have loans either (other kinds of finaid that amounts to the same thing) and they have an inherent recruiting tool - an elite education

    edit: NW prez is bluffing or could be serious - NW has always been terrible at football so few would care.
    who says they have to take a pay cut?

    actually if you knew your football history the IVY league schools when they gave athletic scholarships were some of the top teams in the nation. they
    consistently placed in the top 5. They decided to preserve their educational standards and quit giving athletic scholarships.

    It doesn't matter if NW is good or bad. that is totally irrelevant to the conversation.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    This is ridiculous on so many levels, and will be overturned. How in the world is a student an employee of anything at the school. The only transaction I see is a promise to give them an education in return for their participation in sports. What else is there to bargain for? THAT IS THE BARGAIN. You either decide well yes I would like to take that deal or no I will not.
    The problem is the NCAA and the schools have colluded and set the terms of the 'deal.' Furthermore, for a football player talented enough to play in the NFL, the 'deal' is the only route available to get there. At least with baseball, players have an option - go pro out of HS, or go to college, so when they're presented with the "deal" they actually have a CHOICE. Talented football and basketball players don't have a realistic choice.

    The ban on compensation also extends well beyond the school because the NCAA prohibits athletes from cashing in their market value in any other way, prohibiting contact or getting paid by agents, limiting the kind of summer employment, prohibiting outsiders for paying for appearances, autographs, jerseys, etc. A star coach can negotiate a 6 or 7 figure endorsement deal, but his best players can receive $0.00 for their services endorsing products. The schools can sell a player's jersey and number (without name) and NCAA.org itself sold jerseys of famous NCAA players, but the players cannot receive one penny of benefit from the sales of their own jersey with the number THEY made valuable.

    Anyway, major college sports are a multi $billion BUSINESS, and the only ones in that business whose compensation (inside and outside their institutions) is capped by the arrangement of a cartel of the employers are the talented players that make it all possible. Just seems unsustainable to me whether we like the results or not.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    who says they have to take a pay cut?

    actually if you knew your football history the IVY league schools when they gave athletic scholarships were some of the top teams in the nation. they
    consistently placed in the top 5. They decided to preserve their educational standards and quit giving athletic scholarships.

    It doesn't matter if NW is good or bad. that is totally irrelevant to the conversation.
    Uh if they cut football there won't be a pay cut for the coach or AD? If they pay the players instead, they will have to cut expenses or raise profits. If they use only walk ons they lose millions in revenue, again a pay cut. You figure it out.

    It does matter that NW sucks, because no one applies to NW for the football. The prez and board of trustees aren't going to care in the way that admin at ohio state or UMich will. You really think the latter would cut football just to avoid an NFL style split of revenue with the players?

    Pedo state has taught us what lengths colleges will go to keep the football team in operation

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    Colleges already spend a lot of money on athletes - scholarships, equipment, facilities, coaches and staff, personal trainers, the list goes on and on. Colleges are free to choose to spend however much or however little on athletics as they want. Lifting the ban wouldn't change this fact at all. If a college doesn't want to spend more money on athletics then they already do, fine, no one's going to force them, no one's even suggesting that they should.
    And you can't see how this is going to make things 10 times worse? For another thing, the smaller colleges that can't afford to compete are going to be left out in the cold. The ones who can afford to "pay" their student athletes are going to keep pulling in ALL the money. Then, we're going to get things like salary caps. It's ridiculous. They are student athletes, not professionals. It doesn't matter how good they are, they are still students attending an academic institution and representing that institution when they play. It's just opening the door to all kinds of ridiculous demands on colleges, and I see academics suffering as a result, more so in some than others of course. Are they going to demand payment and have to have salary caps too? This is not good for the overall bigger picture.

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