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Thread: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Please, are you insulting me? And in the case of a student recruited to play football or any sport in exchange for an education, and "at-will" agreement would mean that the school could effectively say no sorry you suck at football, and rescind their agreement to pay for their college education. Not even remotely true as a college needs a very damn good excuse to expel a student from the college or revoke their scholarship. If the student meets the guidelines of attendance and educational performance it matters little if the player sucks at football, the education will still be honored. If it were "at-will" as you claim, the school could opt out at any time without reason.


    Tim-
    The unintended consequence for these athletes could be one-year reviewable scholarships across the board. This is already the case for many sports. Of course, that will mean lawsuits and "player strikes" to battle such decisions.

    I can see it now, "The Ohio State-Michigan won't be shown today because of the current player strike at Michigan; therefore, we present to you "Back to the Future", starring Michael J. Fox."

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    The unintended consequence for these athletes could be one-year reviewable scholarships across the board. This is already the case for many sports. Of course, that will mean lawsuits and "player strikes" to battle such decisions.

    I can see it now, "The Ohio State-Michigan won't be shown today because of the current player strike at Michigan; therefore, we present to you "Back to the Future", starring Michael J. Fox."
    Maybe, but like I said earlier, the agreement is already established at the time when a student decides to attend school under a scholarship. If they are offered one, the school should be made to honor it, and I agree with that, however if the student decides to skip school, or does something unbecoming, then they will be subject to disciplinary action and possible revocation of the scholarship. If they keep at it, they have the potential to become millionaires, and at the very least, they will come out of college with a really good education which in and of itself is pretty good.


    Tim-
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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    NO. i'm saying that it wont necessarily be the case that they are true employees and not students.

    Look at graduate students (why do I think this area may be foreign to you?). They get a stipend that is NON TAXABLE and they act essentially as employees - teaching in classrooms or doing research work. The scholarship is contingent on it being a part of their education, and I think you can make a case for many of these players that participation in their sport is part of their educational endeavor - especially when they are majoring in PE or kinesiology, or sports marketing, etc.

    Its a simple hurdle that will be handled.
    Stipends are taxable income. The first $5,250 or so of tuition waivers is non-taxable. Any amount of tuition waiver for graduate students above that 5k is all taxable income in the eyes of the IRS. (Graduated with a MS last year and had tuition waivers and stipends for a teaching assistantship; did my own taxes with the help of an accountant-friend)

    Note: that 5k is per year. Good luck attending a good program with only 5k in tuition per year.
    Last edited by CycloneWanderer; 03-28-14 at 11:53 AM.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    amazing, isn't it, that libertarians, who espouse rights of the individual are so opposed to the collective rights of those individuals
    Its really in no way shape or form amazing. Libertarianism is - at its core - a right wing belief system and it follows that they would be against any actions of people which strengthen the hand of the people in any effort against corporations or monied interests. They want us to get fooled by the pronouncements about drugs and personal behaviors which they believe make them sound so tolerant and even liberal on those issues but its just meaningless lipstick on the pig. In the end they are a bunch of right wingers whose policies would turn this nation over to a fascist corporatism that runs the nation like a slave master on his plantation. Or course they will scream and yell along with the rest of us when taken to the camps that they never intended it to happen like that but a fat lot of good it will do them or anyone else. You weaken government to the point of impotence and all you have left is corporations to lord it over us. And that is what will happen if the libertarians get their way. But maybe a few of us will feel better because we can smoke a legal joint while waiting in the line to see if today its a shower or something worse.
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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Unionizing is a libertarian belief?
    actually its just the opposite.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    but what those savvy kids also knew was that they had an option other than playing or not playing, and that was playing as a union member. and that is the option they exercised, which brought us to this very thread
    And they already are compensated. Education, housing, travel, facilities, meals, exposure, etc...This argument isn't about college athletes being paid really, it's about liberals hating that someone can make millions. It's an immature argument.
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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Hicup View Post
    Please, are you insulting me? And in the case of a student recruited to play football or any sport in exchange for an education, and "at-will" agreement would mean that the school could effectively say no sorry you suck at football, and rescind their agreement to pay for their college education. Not even remotely true as a college needs a very damn good excuse to expel a student from the college or revoke their scholarship. If the student meets the guidelines of attendance and educational performance it matters little if the player sucks at football, the education will still be honored. If it were "at-will" as you claim, the school could opt out at any time without reason.


    Tim-
    Absolutely. Just Google Golsen from Notre Dame.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Again, you're describing 18-year-old athletes, whom often have nowhere near the academic qualifications to attend these schools, unionizing in order to be compensated for playing an amateur sport.
    let's break this down into the two topics you have introduced:
    1. academically unqualified students admitted to universities
    that is a foolish practice. and an institutionally selfish one
    institutions of higher learning should only be accepting students whose record reflects an ability to succeed at that college of higher learning. those without such qualifications are destined to fail - if the same academic standards are applied to them. UNC chapel hill's recent episode where it was found eliminating academic rigor to retain player eligibility puts this foolishness on public display
    2. unionizing to receive compensation to play what has historically been an amateur sport
    it's a good idea, whose time has come
    i remember the hue and cry when the formerly amateur international olympics allowed professional players to participate. that's when our dream team regained gold, where previously, our amateur players could not, on the basketball court
    and look, the olympics did not shut down ... those who insist that is what would happen today to university sports programs should look to the olympic experience to see their predictions are without merit


    You think Appalachian State can continue its athletics program in that setting?
    ASU only has one dominant sport: football ... unless huffing good weed is added to the list of activities in which the student body excels
    now to your question, could App State continue to do well in its football program once unionization is pervasive on national campuses
    i believe so. the recent App football success may have been an aberration. before it, ECU, another secondary state school, was the state's football powerhouse. App State's short-lived football success has fallen off (since my daughter graduated; but does correlation equal causation). NC really is not remarkable on the national scene for college football. we have an excellent high school program, but our top HS football players tend to be recruited by stronger programs out of state, which is why you do not see NC state, UNC, duke, wake, in major bowl football games, but you will see them during march madness, because our homegrown NC basketball players tend to stay and play in state
    my speculation is well funded universities will have the means to recruit - and pay - for the elite players. but there is only so much money available in one school, which will cause some players to play elsewhere for the money, instead of the powerhouse. and as i noted App is not a true powerhouse program
    in basketball i believe i will cause some of the talent that has historically remained in state schools to now follow the money to funded basketball programs elsewhere

    what i expect after unionization of collegiate sports is similar to the experience in pro sports: the players will be better looked after, both financially and importantly, medically. especially the elite ones
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    I suspect those who want students to be able to unionize mainly do so because they realize the union movement is (thankfully) dying and they need to prop it up for reasons that have NOTHING to do with the well being of the students.



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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I suspect those who want students to be able to unionize mainly do so because they realize the union movement is (thankfully) dying and they need to prop it up for reasons that have NOTHING to do with the well being of the students.
    it is the students who are doing this themselves


    those expressing support are only viewing it from the sidelines

    not saying union strength has not become severely eroded since the golden age of our economy in the 50's
    just saying that student athletes seeking to use their right of assembly has little to do with preserving unionship and everything to do with enhancing their own conditions of employment thru legally sanctioned bargaining
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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