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Thread: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    amazing, isn't it, that libertarians, who espouse rights of the individual are so opposed to the collective rights of those individuals
    Aren't you concerned about the effect this will have on spending for education as opposed to sports teams?

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yeah, what's up with all libertarians not meeting 100% of the expected views of liberals... amazing indeed.
    Well, so many liberals stick strictly to party politics, so it's always surprising to them whenever someone steps out of line. Such as in this case, they don't seem concerned at ALL about education. They see the word "union" and it's automatically good.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Aren't you concerned about the effect this will have on spending for education as opposed to sports teams?
    no. not at all
    first, there is nothing which requires the employer, in this instance, northwestern, to do anything other than negotiate with the new bargaining unit in good faith
    if the employer's position is it is without the funds to pay anything more then it would be foolish to agree to pay that which it does not have
    however, if it makes such an allegation and the parties are at impasse, it will then be a matter elevated to a court or more likely, arbitrator, for a final resolution. that objective third party will review all of the facts. and if the arbitrator found that the employer was less than truthful about its financial ability to pay then it will make a award in the union's favor. if it finds that the employer does not have the money to offer additional compensation, that objective third party will make a decision in the employer's favor
    but now i ask you, if the university is found to be paying its coaches annual salaries in the millions of dollars, how legitimate is the employer's argument that it cannot afford to pay the players
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    no. not at all
    first, there is nothing which requires the employer, in this instance, northwestern, to do anything other than negotiate with the new bargaining unit in good faith
    if the employer's position is it is without the funds to pay anything more then it would be foolish to agree to pay that which it does not have
    however, if it makes such an allegation and the parties are at impasse, it will then be a matter elevated to a court or more likely, arbitrator, for a final resolution. that objective third party will review all of the facts. and if the arbitrator found that the employer was less than truthful about its financial ability to pay then it will make a award in the union's favor. if it finds that the employer does not have the money to offer additional compensation, that objective third party will make a decision in the employer's favor
    but now i ask you, if the university is found to be paying its coaches annual salaries in the millions of dollars, how legitimate is the employer's argument that it cannot afford to pay the players
    For one thing, if this is not repealed, this will be the case for ALL colleges/universities, not just Northwestern.

    They are NOT employers. They are an institution for higher education. The only employees are the people on the staff.

    The coaches ARE employees. The students are not.

    You still have not addressed the point that money that should go to educational materials, professors, etc., could now potentially be spent on acquiring athletes.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yeah, what's up with all libertarians not meeting 100% of the expected views of liberals... amazing indeed.
    what is starkly obvious is that so many who profess to hold libertarian values suddenly no longer hold those same principles when libertarian beliefs are actually being exercised
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    what is starkly obvious is that so many who profess to hold libertarian values suddenly no longer hold those same principles when libertarian beliefs are actually being exercised
    Unionizing is a libertarian belief?

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    what is starkly obvious is that so many who profess to hold libertarian values suddenly no longer hold those same principles when libertarian beliefs are actually being exercised
    What's starkly obvious is how hive minded liberals see the world.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by the_recruit View Post
    Let the market decide. My guess is nope.
    If that was the way it worked, Title IX would have never passed.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    the players as northwestern obviously do not share your opinion that what they receive as compensation for playing is presently adequate
    which is why they have sought to be recognized as a bargaining unit, authorized to sit down with the employer to negotiate what they will receive as compensation for their hours of labor in the future
    that's it. to be able to participate in the discussion about what they will receive for their efforts
    can't understand what you and others find so objectionable about having such a voice as that
    They don't have to play then.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    For one thing, if this is not repealed, this will be the case for ALL colleges/universities, not just Northwestern.
    it will be only if those other teams also do as the northwestern players did, and seek authority to be recognized as a legitimate bargaining unit

    They are NOT employers.
    the court has found otherwise. the court determined that the university failed to prove that it was NOT an employer

    They are an institution for higher education.
    just like institutions of lower learning, such as elementary schools in our neighborhoods, those institutions are also employers. being an institution of higher learning of itself does not preclude the university from also being an employer. and this was recently the determination of the court

    The only employees are the people on the staff.
    the court found that the employees are those who are required to perform services for consideration
    in this instance, the court found that students were expending between 40-50 hours weekly in labor as athletes, meeting the test of an employee performing services for compensation

    The coaches ARE employees.
    yes. they are
    and some of them are making millions of dollars coaching players who receive no monetary payment for their labor; the effort and talent of those players bring in revenues allowing the university to pay their coaches millions of dollars. the inequity of the situation is obvious. to the players, painfully obvious. which is one of the reasons that some players discontinue their efforts to achieve a higher education, leaving for the money available elsewhere, enabling them to then take care of their families in a way they cannot as unpaid student athletes

    The students are not.
    the court disagrees with you
    in learning that students were compelled to spend the equivalent of a full time job to meet the requirements to remain a member of the university's team, the court determined that the players were being treated like employees. only uncompensated employees. what was also found, which i found disheartening, was the adverse impact of the playing requirements upon the student athletes. many were forced to change their majors, away from the focus they sought, to other majors having less stringent requirements, to be able to fulfill their expectations as athletes. to me, that indicated the employer was focused on the employee as an athlete rather than as a student

    You still have not addressed the point that money that should go to educational materials, professors, etc., could now potentially be spent on acquiring athletes.
    money is fungible. the millions spent on coaches could now be spent instead on educational materials. but the employers chose to allocate those millions to seek out the better coaches on the market, who are available, despite their accompanying high salaries. why is it so wrong to also pay highly desirable athletes in the same manner?
    we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
    once you're over the hill you begin to pick up speed

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