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Thread: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    I'm more concerned with colleges spending their money on educating students, rather than paying student athletes. I think it's an all around stupid idea.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I'm more concerned with colleges spending their money on educating students, rather than paying student athletes. I think it's an all around stupid idea.
    Then you agree with me that athletics for profit should not be a part of Anerican higher education.

    It is and always has been an all around stupid idea. The U of Chicago did it right by dismantling their football program in the 30s and drop out of the Big Ten.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Then you agree with me that athletics for profit should not be a part of Anerican higher education.

    It is and always has been an all around stupid idea. The U of Chicago did it right by dismantling their football program in the 30s and drop out of the Big Ten.
    I don't really know how I feel about college athletes receiving scholarships. I don't think that college scholarships should ever be awarded on the basis of being a good athlete alone. If these students are earning scholarships and are good at a particular sport too, then that's something else I guess.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Not getting analogies is a demonstration of much dumber intellect....FYI.
    I would say equating a voluntary activity to enslavement is on a scale of dumb not frequently seen.
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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    While I have nothing against college players being paid I dont think unions ought to be allowed, they are more of a detriment than an advantage.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    they are getting payment in the form of education or are you going to continue saying that they don't?
    You're mincing words. You think you're making a point but all you're really doing is demonstrating a complete and total failure to understand even the most basic points of the discussion. In the context of the pay-for-play discussion, when someone says "college athletes should be allowed to be paid" they are not talking about compensation in the form of scholarships. They are talking about a paycheck - income that the player can spend as he or she chooses.

    They are talking about NCAA ByLaw12.1.2, which explicitly prohibits college athletes from accepting any form of pay for playing.

    That's what everyone is talking about it. If you can't comprehend that simple distinction you have no business here.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    they are not employee's so there is no market. they are students first athletes second.

    without grades they don't play.
    The reason you see no market is because the NCAA members have colluded and agreed to not offer to pay athletes for their labor. It's textbook form of price fixing that interferes with free market operation and needs to be lifted. Then see if "there is no market".

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    30 years of court rulings disagree with you.

    there reasoning was. a scholarship offer does not read like an employment. there i no contract of employment. the school offered no job or opened any job pertaining to the position or a promise of employment for the student.

    the fact that the labor board ignored already established law is astounding. this will go to court and they will get overturned.
    they are not employee's.

    they are students. their scholarship offers are dependent on them getting into school taking and passing classes.
    1. Look up the definition of colloquial.
    2. Bull****
    3. I don't give a ****. I don't need a court ruling to tell me what is or isn't employment in the colloquial sense. Maybe you do, but I have no difficulties understanding simple definitions and knowing when and where they apply.

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    school doesn't need to bargain with anyone. they simply pull all scholarship and make football playing voluntary.
    Oh please. There's way too much money to made in college football. All the universities and ncaa execs and advertising companies and sponsors aren't just going to throw it all away just because the players want a cut of the pie. Get real.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    because clearly that means their work isn't that valuable economically...

    I'm sorry but this is wrong. First of all, if these athletes don't generate value economically, then the free market won't pay them for their work. In which case you don't need a NCAA law banning pay-for-play. I mean this is precisely the sort of thing the free market excels at - in determining where the value is and is not. So again, why not lift the prohibition?

    Second of all, the athletes you're talking about - the ones playing at football programs that operate in the red - probably WON'T see offers of a salary to play for a school's team (for the reasons I just mentioned). But what about the small percentage of athletes that very clearly ARE generating enormous economic value to the tune of tens of millions of dollars for the elite programs. In which case your argument also fails.

    So why do we need a prohibition on pay-for-play?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crovax View Post
    and that scholarships plus the potential for future earnings are very good compensation in relationship to work preformed
    That's just your opinion, someone else could just as easily declare that it's not enough compensation. And it's still not a reason for needing a prohibition.

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    Re: Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Why should that be the case though?
    I agree. Why should the NCAA prohibit pay-for-play? Why should that be the case?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    They aren't professional athletes,
    I think a lot of people would disagree. I think a lot of people would say that college athletes are effectively professional athletes, and that we're just kidding ourselves by saying they're not. I mean the school offers them compensation in the form of scholarship money, and the athletes have a bunch of duties and responsibilities they have to fulfill in order to continue receiving that compensation (spending X hours a week training, etc). Sounds like a professional to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    and they are playing to represent their school and, in the case of a scholarship, have already been paid in a way to play.
    Which is another reason why the ban is so silly. The NCAA basically says it's ok for universities to attract top athletes with this kind of compensation (scholarships) but it's not ok to attact them with this kind of compensation (a paycheck). It's a silly distinction.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't see how this really is of benefit, especially to college sports in general.
    I'm not sure that it would benefit college sports in general. I don't think it would change it all that much anyway. The idea is that it would benefit the college athletes, who are doing all the hard work that generates billions of dollars that other people are profiting from.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    I hope those players are successful. Seeing how these college athletes make billions for the universities they should get a large cut of those profits.
    That not the way that I hear it. I have read that only 8 or so schools actually make money off of football programs and almost all of the other sports are money losers. It is extremely expensive to coach and outfit the teams and travel to the games. A large part of the rise in college fees goes to subsidize athletic programs. Colleges like them to attract students and up to now students have been willing to pay escalating fees but we seem to be at a bubble.

    Hopefully this move will signal the end of intercollegiate athletics, except at a club level, paid for by participants.

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    Re: NLRB rules NW University footballers can unionize

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric7216 View Post
    That not the way that I hear it. I have read that only 8 or so schools actually make money off of football programs and almost all of the other sports are money losers.
    When the reports talk about schools making money, they're referring to athletics taking in enough revenue to pay for all athletic expenses, on every team.

    If we look at football by itself, this is what we see, 69 of 120 football programs make some profit:

    58% of football programs and 56% of men's basketball programs are self-sufficient. Only 1 women's basketball program is.
    The two biggest drivers of athletic revenue are ticket sales and alumni donations.
    The two biggest expenses are scholarships and employee salaries. Those two items alone make up more than 50% of all expenses.

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