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Labor board: Northwestern University football players can unionize

these are workers in a workplace who have just formed a bargaining unit
the employer will lose big if it refuses to negotiate in good faith. booting the players out, revoking their scholarships, and billing them for their accrued scholarship expenditures would hardly be viewed by the folks at DoL who oversee labor relations activities as negotiating in good faith, as is required by federal law...

These are NOT workers (communist term btw), they are offered compensation in the form of a scholarship that as I pointed out, costs $176,000 for four years. The ones failing to be honest in their negotiations are the student athletes threatening the Universities with Unions.

have no idea what point you were attempting to make there

It was laid out right there in black and white, sangha's question, and my answer...Sorry you can't offer rebuttal.
 
and some do that. I had a cousin who was a pitcher in HS. He had the KC Royals, the Cards, and the Cubs all wanting him right out of HS to join their farm systems. All offered more money than he'd ever seen to go with them, he also was offered several free rides to different colleges. He chose the free ride.

Well, second year in the school's trainer ruined his arm. Tore the hell out of his shoulder and his pitching career was finished. They still honored his scholarship all the way til graduation.

I know not all schools do this, but they all should.

Damn, sorry to hear that....I hate to see a career ended before the big's....I am glad that the college honored their commitment to finish his education, something for most that is more valuable in the long run anyway. But this is why the only caveat I have is for these schools to set aside injury funds.
 
Damn, sorry to hear that....I hate to see a career ended before the big's....I am glad that the college honored their commitment to finish his education, something for most that is more valuable in the long run anyway. But this is why the only caveat I have is for these schools to set aside injury funds.

Yeah, to me, that's an ethical obligation..
 
These are NOT workers (communist term btw), they are offered compensation in the form of a scholarship that as I pointed out, costs $176,000 for four years. The ones failing to be honest in their negotiations are the student athletes threatening the Universities with Unions.

What 'negotiations?' They're given a take it or leave it deal, and that deal is as a result of collusion between all the members of the U.S. football cartel, who have agreed among themselves to artificially set limit compensation paid to college players who are the backbone of a multi-$billion business. If there was any kind of 'negotiation,' Johnny Manziel (and many others) would insist on and be granted the permission to sell his jersey, sell his signature, sell his underwear, and put his services as QB up for bid among competing teams, who would no doubt agree to pay him FAR more than the value of an annual scholarship.

All the colleges and universities in D1 have formed a cartel, established a governing entity (NCAA) with dictatorial powers to rule over college players, and these entities along with the overtly socialist NFL have agreed on a wage scale, work rules and more that applies to every single college football player. And for a football player interested in playing professionally, this is their only career option. But if a few members of a single team form a union to negotiate with this behemoth cartel and dictatorial NCAA, the PLAYERS are the ones who are not being 'honest' in their so-called 'negotiations.' It's a pretty absurd position.
 
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The negotiations between promising HS prospects, coaches, parents, etc.....Don't tell me that doesn't go on.

I suppose that's true. It's been a while, but a close family friend was fond of giving literal $100 handshakes to some of his favorite players. I didn't have a problem with it then, and don't now. But if that's what you're talking about, or other underhanded 'negotiating' methods, all you're doing is defending a system that rewards cheaters, and punishes schools (and kids) that play by the rules.
 
I suppose that's true. It's been a while, but a close family friend was fond of giving literal $100 handshakes to some of his favorite players. I didn't have a problem with it then, and don't now. But if that's what you're talking about, or other underhanded 'negotiating' methods, all you're doing is defending a system that rewards cheaters, and punishes schools (and kids) that play by the rules.

No, I am defending a system that takes underprivilaged, underserved kids, that never in a million years would get into these institutions, and brings them aboard, and holds their hands to graduation, giving them the best opportunity they'll ever get in the name of a sport they are good at. And doing that to the tune of $200K or better when all is said and done.

So, advocate for doing away with that if you wish, Lord knows it ain't perfect. But, I wouldn't want to be the ones advocating for holding these kids down in the name of some pipe dream of "equality'' fueled by pure greed of young 20 somethings and backed by thug unions.
 
These are NOT workers (communist term btw), they are offered compensation in the form of a scholarship that as I pointed out, costs $176,000 for four years. The ones failing to be honest in their negotiations are the student athletes threatening the Universities with Unions.
you post as if every employee must remain content with whatever compensation his employer chooses to pay him for his labor. and in 'at will' employment, that is the circumstance. but if an employee wants to negotiate terms and conditions of employment, he must participate as a bargaining unit. which is what the players at northwestern did



It was laid out right there in black and white, sangha's question, and my answer...Sorry you can't offer rebuttal.
then you don't know what point you were trying to make either
finally one element of agreement
 
They are not joined in the rest of the world. Maybe that's why the education standards in other countries seem to be so much better.

But this is about greed. It's about the NCAA getting free labor and having no problems with colleges fielding football teams of academically weak players who will never graduate.

What do you mean, they are not joined in the rest of the world? They certainly aren't on another planet!

And how will unionizing fix this? :roll: Unless you are suggesting that you would be perfectly fine if there was no such thing as college sports.

There are other ways they can deal with the greediness. There can be RULES put into effect. I agree that some of the things the colleges pull are very fair, but unionizing isn't the way to go IMO.
 
you post as if every employee must remain content with whatever compensation his employer chooses to pay him for his labor. and in 'at will' employment, that is the circumstance. but if an employee wants to negotiate terms and conditions of employment, he must participate as a bargaining unit. which is what the players at northwestern did

They are not employee's they are students. without being a student making grades they cannot play football.
can they play football at a college without being an student?
 
What do you mean, they are not joined in the rest of the world? They certainly aren't on another planet!

And how will unionizing fix this? :roll: Unless you are suggesting that you would be perfectly fine if there was no such thing as college sports.

There are other ways they can deal with the greediness. There can be RULES put into effect. I agree that some of the things the colleges pull are very fair, but unionizing isn't the way to go IMO.

While your world stops at the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, there are other parts of the world that have Universities. And no big time college sports. In fact, its the entire world except for the US.

I dont think unionizing would reallly fix it. I think colleges need to drop D1 athletic programs entirely. They can lease their names out to some professional league. Rent out their stadiums. Get merchandising rights if they want.

But going thru the charade of pretending these are 'student athletes' needs to go.
 
they were paid. they got a free ride to college with all books, classes, free room and board, free trainers, free medical staff, free training room etc..
None of that will feed a baby or buy diapers.

That's the way I saw it when I was that age.
 
And how will unionizing fix this? :roll: Unless you are suggesting that you would be perfectly fine if there was no such thing as college sports.
There will still be college sports. It's a supply/demand issue.
 
you post as if every employee must remain content with whatever compensation his employer chooses to pay him for his labor. and in 'at will' employment, that is the circumstance. but if an employee wants to negotiate terms and conditions of employment, he must participate as a bargaining unit. which is what the players at northwestern did

Are you saying that people that are not part of a Union, can't bargain with their employer for a raise? That is false. But, calling the students, "employees" is deception at best, and propaganda in the normal function of agitprop bullying that Unions engage in. IF the students don't like their status with the University, then leave....I am sure there are no walls with armed guards keeping them there.

then you don't know what point you were trying to make either
finally one element of agreement

My point was clear. I suggest you stop breaking the rules.
 
Rather see the NFL/NBA put in a system ala MLB minor leagues. If kids want to play basketball or football and get paid, they can go there. If they want free education, they can go play at a university.

Of course the NCAA won't go for it because they'll lose money. The NFL won't because they lose their free development league.
 
While your world stops at the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, there are other parts of the world that have Universities. And no big time college sports. In fact, its the entire world except for the US.

I dont think unionizing would reallly fix it. I think colleges need to drop D1 athletic programs entirely. They can lease their names out to some professional league. Rent out their stadiums. Get merchandising rights if they want.

But going thru the charade of pretending these are 'student athletes' needs to go.

But they are student athletes. You see, they are athletes but they are also students, hence "student athletes." :prof
 
There will still be college sports. It's a supply/demand issue.

It wouldn't be like it is now. I'll bet many colleges would have to scrap their sports programs altogether. That sucks.
 
Are you saying that people that are not part of a Union, can't bargain with their employer for a raise?
who said that? certainly wasn't me.
here is what i actually posted ... let's stay with that:
you post as if every employee must remain content with whatever compensation his employer chooses to pay him for his labor. and in 'at will' employment, that is the circumstance. but if an employee wants to negotiate terms and conditions of employment, he must participate as a bargaining unit. which is what the players at northwestern did


That is false.
you post a fallacious statement and then you declare that erroneous statement to be false. too clever by half

But, calling the students, "employees" is deception at best, and propaganda in the normal function of agitprop bullying that Unions engage in.
employees is what the court found those ball playing members of the university to be
you then equate the court's finding them to be employees as propaganda and union bullying

IF the students don't like their status with the University, then leave....I am sure there are no walls with armed guards keeping them there.
that could be said of any group of employees seeking union representation. and your argument would be just as wrongheaded with them as with the players now unionized



My point was clear.
like ****, it was

I suggest you stop breaking the rules.
my challenge is for you to point to any rule broken by me within this thread
 
who said that? certainly wasn't me.
here is what i actually posted ... let's stay with that:

Who said that? You did bubba, and you posted it again for clarification...When you said:

" you post as if every employee must remain content with whatever compensation his employer chooses to pay him for his labor."

That was you mischaracterizing my comment, then you went on to say:

"and in 'at will' employment, that is the circumstance."

No, that is NOT the circumstance. Each individual is able to go to his or her employer and negotiate with them for a raise, for better benefits, or to find work elsewhere....

But it didn't stop there, you finished up with:

"but if an employee wants to negotiate terms and conditions of employment, he must participate as a bargaining unit."

Which is complete and utter bull. People negotiate terms, and conditions of employment every time they agree to work somewhere...At one time in my life I was a part of the Teamsters for a job, and that wasn't up to me. In order to work for that employer I was told that I must be a part of the union....When someone is offered a job, they are told what the job pays, what the benefits are, and it is at that point that they can ask for more, accept the terms, or decide not to work there and continue looking.

Your premise that only those in a union can negotiate is nonsense.

you post a fallacious statement and then you declare that erroneous statement to be false. too clever by half

Not being clever, it doesn't take that to see through your bs.

employees is what the court found those ball playing members of the university to be
you then equate the court's finding them to be employees as propaganda and union bullying

What "court"? The OP was this:

(CNN) -- The National Labor Relations Board in Chicago has ruled that football players at Northwestern University are employees and can unionize, the school said Wednesday.
The ruling has not yet been posted to the National Labor Relations Board website, but in a statement, Northwestern acknowledged the ruling and says it plans to appeal.
Northwestern fought the petition by saying its players are students, not employees.

Is the NLRB now a "court" in your mind?

that could be said of any group of employees seeking union representation. and your argument would be just as wrongheaded with them as with the players now unionized

All you are saying here is that you support unions....Shocking I tell ya....But it seems that with participation at, or near 7% nationwide you are in a minority, of a minority.

like ****, it was

Your inability to comprehend is not my problem.

my challenge is for you to point to any rule broken by me within this thread

Your attempt here to try and get me to discuss it, is in itself a violation, but I won't do that because the rules are clearly accessible for anyone to click on and see bubba, and I am not a 'mod' so as you well know it is a violation to act as though I am one....I can offer you a link to the rules here:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/forum-rules/28594-forum-rules.html

And only suggest that you read #3 and #4.

Any further clarity you need, I suggest you contact a moderator and discuss it with them.
 
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