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In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

Treaty of Versailles only said Germany couldn't militarize it. Rhineland was part of Germany, so was Saarland (but under French rule). In 1935 Saarland voted to be release back to Germany. Rhineland itself included cities like Cologne, Mainz, Mannheim, Dusseldorf. Germany's industry sector.

Sudetenland was known as German Bohemians as well. After WW1 Germans in this area protested and protested and protested only to be put down by the newly formed Czech military. US Ambassador Archibald Cary Coolidge told Wilson to give certain regions like Cheb to Germany and South Moravia and South Bohemia to Austria. This was ignored.

What part of Germany included Belgium. the Netherlands, Holland, Norway, and Russia? Damn, we have seriously misjudged Adolph all these years. He was just trying to reunite all those peace loving Germans in one big country!:lamo
 
Paris was not fought for or defended.

France caved without much of a fight. In exchange for craven surrender, they got to keep Paris spotless and were rewarded by Hitler with Vichy France. Then they actively cooperated with Hitler in rounding up their Jews as quickly as possible.
 
That is an nonsensical statement. The Crimea was Ukraine.

Crimea was part of the modern state of Ukraine. The people of Crimea chose their path, and if the argument is that the people of other parts of Ukraine deserve the self-determination to join the EU, why do the people of Crimea not get that same right?
 
Paris was not fought for or defended.

That's cause France got it's ass handed to them all the way to when their backs were up against Paris. They were broken and couldn't hold a line. Historical facts are nice some times. Your welcome for providing them.
 
God, not another Nazi worshipper here! Where is Stormfront when you really need it? Hey - come get your guys back!

Actually, your ignorance is your failure here. Rhineland which "demilitarized" after WW1 legally remained part of Germany. Triple Entente had troops in the region until 1930. Just stating historical fact.
 
That's cause France got it's ass handed to them all the way to when their backs were up against Paris. They were broken and couldn't hold a line. Historical facts are nice some times. Your welcome for providing them.

Kinda funny how I provided them first, but you are welcome anyway to them. This is not a test, its history repeating it self and we are just going to watch it on the news.
 
Ukraine is not fighting Russia because they don't have a chance. So you have the Hollywood view of the Alamo. Those at the Alamo had an arsenal of cannons, vastly more than Santa Anna. They believed Sam Houston would come with the Texas army for those cannons, which is how they held off the initial wave attacks. When they learned Houston would not come Santa Anna had already given the death ultimatum. The line in the dirt is a myth as at that point they were surrounded and there was no escape. They did not decide to make the "ultimate sacrifice." They miscalculated Sam Houston, were surrounded, and had been told no prisoners would be taken alive. At least you are one people who believes Hitler was correct to tell Germans at Stalingrad to fight to the death of the last soldier and his declaring all Germans should die rather than surrender - since that is your repeated view now.

The Ukraine would fight IF TRUE territory belonging to Ukraine was invaded.

No Sir, I have a very accurate view of the Alamo. Too large a complex to be held by 100 men. The defenders had 20 cannon to defend a 360 perimeter, Santa Anna could concentrate his in three batteries to batter the adobe walls. The cannon were poorly sited to 'hold-off' a ground attack as many were up on the parapets, unable to fire at a negative elevation. Cannons of the day fired solid shot, sperical shells with very poor fusing and canister. by far the best anti-infantry load was canister but the cannons couldn't be depressed in order to fire it at the ranges that would have been effective so as the approaching infantry got into canister range the cannon couldn't fire from the parapets leaving only the ground mounted guns to be effective.

I understand how those who never stood for something can denigrate the sacrifice of those who have fought and died. Howsomever there many opportunities to escape and at least a dozen men left before the final battle. The soldier doesn't think what are his odds of surviving a battle before accepting battle, death in victory or defeat is still death. Your mantra seems to be if I can't be assured of surviving and victory I choose not to defend my land? Hardly what any army uses as a benchmark.

Again you make crap up. I never said in a hopeless situation obeying an order to die rather than surrender is correct. Am saying there comes a time where a soldier must stand and defend the motherland even if the odds don't seem good. Many German soldiers knew the War was lost by 1944 but fought and died. Our history had us as the primary fighters against England rather than sitting back begging France to fight for us.

To expect the USofA to fight for Ukrainians interests in the Crimea is absurd. THEY don't even want to fight for the Crimea. :doh
 
Well, the good guy according to you. It wouldn't make him the good guy according to Gazprom or Russian oligarchs.

Then what about Crimea? Why should Ukraine be allowed to choose it's path, but not Crimea?

Well holding a referendum at gunpoint is not letting Crimea choose it's own path. Putin is the bad guy here, unless yes you are talking about Russia and Gazprom. He is preventing Ukraine from taking it's own path towards the EU.
 
Well holding a referendum at gunpoint is not letting Crimea choose it's own path. Putin is the bad guy here, unless yes you are talking about Russia and Gazprom. He is preventing Ukraine from taking it's own path towards the EU.

You've got a point, but Putin's job is not to make it easier for Ukraine to join the EU. His job is to do what's best for Russia, and preserving the trade relationship with Ukraine would certainly be good for Russia.
 
Actually he wasn't. In one of History's perennial lessons on the importance of generalship, sound strategy, and willingness to exert one's self to force a conclusion, the German Wehrmacht was actually militarily inferior to the forces of France and Britain at the time.



Quantity tends to have a quality all it's own. For (another) example, the Sherman tanks were inferior in WWII once we invaded Africa and Europe to their German counterparts - but we had lots of them. Russians used the mass-over-quality approach in their war with Germany as well, and 80% of German casualties happened on the Eastern Front because of it. I don't know if you can accurately compare Russians to Iraqi's as far as skill of employment is concerned.



Interesting. You do not consider the Ukraine or the Baltic States to be part of Europe?



True enough; and in his ability to use petro-power and threats to shove eastern Europe around. I would add "Egypt" to that list - when General Sisi decided that "the people" desired him to step down in order to "run" (he will certainly win overwhelmingly) for President, he went to get Putin's blessing, not ours.

You make fair points. I do think that technology makes a bigger difference than it did 70 years ago.

It was my understanding that Germany went on a full tilt effort to build their military before they moved,perhaps I am wrong. Lucky he drove out his Jewish scientists!
 
In complete truth. Putin was clever enough to capture the Fleet without firing a shot. He scuttled two Russian vessels to block the access channels and it appears to have been a complete success. No casualties. No snipers. No firebombs. No blood. Could Putin be the "good guy" in this embroglio? I think he is.

I completely agree!

Russian forces also took several other military facilities with almost no bloodshed. Had the US taken such objectives, they would have carpet-bombed the entire area, Shock & Awe style.

It appears that in practice, where the rubber meets the road, Russia is far more concerned about human life than Uncle Sam is. It appears that The Evil Empire is actually the US Government. That does not make me happy, I am not proud of that, but it does seem to be the case judging from real events.
 
You've got a point, but Putin's job is not to make it easier for Ukraine to join the EU. His job is to do what's best for Russia, and preserving the trade relationship with Ukraine would certainly be good for Russia.

He is not the bad guy to Russia, actually he might be, considering RT was denying the invasion. On an international scale he is.
 
You make fair points. I do think that technology makes a bigger difference than it did 70 years ago.

Yes, but many of the biggest enablers are information technology, where Russia has an above-average punch.

It was my understanding that Germany went on a full tilt effort to build their military before they moved,perhaps I am wrong. Lucky he drove out his Jewish scientists!

They did go on full-tilt, but they still hadn't fully recovered from Versailles. And yeah, getting rid of your best tech workers because you don't like their ethnicity is a traditional losing move.
 
Russian forces also took several other military facilities with almost no bloodshed. Had the US taken such objectives, they would have carpet-bombed the entire area, Shock & Awe style.

:) I really enjoy when you say crap like that, because it demonstrates that you have no idea what you are talking about.
 
I completely agree!

Russian forces also took several other military facilities with almost no bloodshed. Had the US taken such objectives, they would have carpet-bombed the entire area, Shock & Awe style.

It appears that in practice, where the rubber meets the road, Russia is far more concerned about human life than Uncle Sam is. It appears that The Evil Empire is actually the US Government. That does not make me happy, I am not proud of that, but it does seem to be the case judging from real events.


Wow, Russian allies on the forum. PRAISING Russia for its war practices in Afghanistan? I don't think so. It's the Stormfront influence here.

"The decade-long war (with Russia) resulted in millions of Afghans fleeing their country, mostly to Pakistan and Iran. Hundreds of thousands of Afghan civilians were killed in addition to the rebels in the war."

"Estimates of Afghan civilian deaths vary from 850,000 to 1,500,000.[23][24] 5–10 million Afghans fled to Pakistan and Iran, 1/3 of the prewar population of the country, and another 2 million were displaced within the country. In the 1980s, half of all refugees in the world were Afghan."

Soviet war in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fagan and Henry cheer that. Praise Russia for it. Declare Russia heroic for it. KILL THOSE DAMN NON-WHITE PEOPLE! Or at least run them out of the country! Send all African-Americans back to Africa and All Latinos to Mexico! If Putin were in charge that's what he'd do - and that is why the love you - though won't say so on THIS forum and rather talk all around it. But that is the core of their messages.

But they weren't white and Fagan's and Henry's messages are laced with extreme racist and racial/ethnic segregation. Thus, to them, it doesn't matter how many Afghanistanis Russia killed because they aren't white. In fact, they cheer Russians killing, interning and using non-whites for slave labor.

The reason they HATE the USA is because the USA is not racial segregated. That is what they mean when they say the USA is evil. The USA is not racially segregated and they see this as crimes against their white race.
 
That's cause France got it's ass handed to them all the way to when their backs were up against Paris. They were broken and couldn't hold a line. Historical facts are nice some times. Your welcome for providing them.

He posts messages like that because he hates France. The French military had over 100,000 casualties and France had to decide whether to see it's cities destroyed or fight an underground resistance. The heroics of the French resistance went off the chart in sacrifice and bravery. But they were French so he ridicules them.
 
"A great deal of damage was done to the civilian children population by land mines. (Russian war against Afghanistan). A 2005 report estimated 3–4% of the Afghan population were disabled due to Soviet and government land mines. In the city of Quetta, a survey of refugee women and children taken shortly after the Soviet withdrawal found child mortality at 31%, and over 80% of the children refugees to be unregistered. Of children who survived, 67% were severely malnourished, with malnutrition increasing with age." (Same source as above)
 
You wish it had been.
Keep moving the goal posts. Its all you have. But on that note, I have some beautiful pics from right after the war taken by my mother showing how interesting the French landmarks are.
 
Wow, Russian allies on the forum. PRAISING Russia for its war practices in Afghanistan? I don't think so. It's the Stormfront influence here.

"The decade-long war (with Russia) resulted in millions of Afghans fleeing their country, mostly to Pakistan and Iran. Hundreds of thousands of Afghan civilians were killed in addition to the rebels in the war."

"Estimates of Afghan civilian deaths vary from 850,000 to 1,500,000.[23][24] 5–10 million Afghans fled to Pakistan and Iran, 1/3 of the prewar population of the country, and another 2 million were displaced within the country. In the 1980s, half of all refugees in the world were Afghan."

Soviet war in Afghanistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fagan and Henry cheer that. Praise Russia for it. Declare Russia heroic for it. KILL THOSE DAMN NON-WHITE PEOPLE! Or at least run them out of the country! Send all African-Americans back to Africa and All Latinos to Mexico! If Putin were in charge that's what he'd do - and that is why the love you - though won't say so on THIS forum and rather talk all around it. But that is the core of their messages.

But they weren't white and Fagan's and Henry's messages are laced with extreme racist and racial/ethnic segregation. Thus, to them, it doesn't matter how many Afghanistanis Russia killed because they aren't white. In fact, they cheer Russians killing, interning and using non-whites for slave labor.

The reason they HATE the USA is because the USA is not racial segregated. That is what they mean when they say the USA is evil. The USA is not racially segregated and they see this as crimes against their white race.

It would be way cool if you could show where I praised Russia for its actions in Afghanistan, and it would be cooler still if you could show where I complained about a lack of racial segregation.

But, I know you can't and won't because I never said anything like that. Nonetheless, I'm glad you had the chance to vent, even if the rant offers false claims. Feel better now? ;)
 
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