• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

You should see a doctor about those hallucinations.

he is not far off, the u.s. has be involved in the Ukraine for quite so time now, and pushing for democracy there, creating instability before this Russian thing ever got started.

why does everyone always think the u.s. is innocent about things they do abroad ,when all one has to do is look here, and see how they violate the law.
 
I'm not seeing that, those companies have ties to Ukraine but they do not have much influence. If they did the economy would not be stagnating as it is, Ukraine is not ruled by American corporations, they have their own. European companies maybe but then again they want those. They want to participate in the Western economy which means they also want to be open to Western corporations as well as their own. I would also like to ask: do you believe that Russian corporations like Gazprom would be any better?

I think that under EU/IMF/Nato auspices that the people of Ukraine will devalue their currency (not a benefit to citizens), raise the price od Energy (not a benefit to citizens), lower pensions (not a benefit to citizens), be forced to use Ukraine Patrimony to collateralize IMF loans (resources, pipelines, etc.), be forced to pay as you go plan for Russian gas (due to historic delinquencies), suffer from a citizenry split 50% by ideology to prevent progress (like repub/dem in USA), lower wages, higher unemployment, among other things, but those are the realistic projections of Western banking austerity.
 
he is not far off, the u.s. has be involved in the Ukraine for quite so time now, and pushing for democracy there, creating instability before this Russian thing ever got started.

why does everyone always think the u.s. is innocent about things they do abroad ,when all one has to do is look here, and see how they violate the law.

Things sure are stable now that your hero Putin has taken over. :roll:

At least he's putting an end to ethnic desegregation. Ukraine is suppose to be a WHITE country and everyone knows it! Your hero.
 
I think that under EU/IMF/Nato auspices that the people of Ukraine will devalue their currency (not a benefit to citizens), raise the price od Energy (not a benefit to citizens), lower pensions (not a benefit to citizens), be forced to use Ukraine Patrimony to collateralize IMF loans (resources, pipelines, etc.), be forced to pay as you go plan for Russian gas (due to historic delinquencies), suffer from a citizenry split 50% by ideology to prevent progress (like repub/dem in USA), lower wages, higher unemployment, among other things, but those are the realistic projections of Western banking austerity.

True that Putin will do that and much more. He'll drain the Ukraine like a vampire. Now more of those damn trade unions either, he'll stop that real quick!
 
You have a unique remembering. It took millions in arms to keep the Afghans going. It took over a million dead Afghanis. 500 Stingers was the final nail in a coffin a decade in the making.

But the key element was a nation willing to FIGHT and take MASSIVE casualties. It appears the Ukrainians are not willing to fight- far more willing to call the USofA into the conflict, which again is the Crimea, not a historic part of the Ukraine, wanting to be closer to Russia than the Ukraine.

True, Ukraine was a fool to believe the USA and UK to give up their nuclear weapons.

I understand you. You want massive Ukraine causalities and are bothered they are not committing suicide.
 
Things sure are stable now that your hero Putin has taken over. :roll:

At least he's putting an end to ethnic desegregation. Ukraine is suppose to be a WHITE country and everyone knows it! Your hero.

i would hardly call him a hero of mine.

however if you read history you will see the u.s. has made governments unstable on purpose, and overthrown governments though subterfuge, supporting oppositions.

being one who supports constitutional law....that is not a power of government

and your emotional content of your statements, shows your weakness in debating.
 
You suggested giving arms to an opposition force to use against Russia, bad idea, just bad.


That would mess up the USA/West and Russia dividing up the world plan for sure.
 
i would hardly call him a hero of mine.

however if you read history you will see the u.s. has made governments unstable on purpose, and overthrow government though subterfuge, supporting oppositions.

being one who supports constitutional law....that is not a power of government

So has Russia, the UK and many other countries. Why do you MOST hate the United States?

Explain you obvious claim that Western Europeans were worse off then Eastern Europeans under Soviet total control?

Obviously you want Ukraine to lose its sovereignty to Russia with your declaring the USA's efforts to help Ukraine fully severe from Russian domination.

So... it's your claim. Prove you claim that it is better to be forced to be a Russian than to be a Ukrainean? That is your claim.
 
So has Russia, the UK and many other countries. Why do you MOST hate the United States?

Explain you obvious claim that Western Europeans were worse off then Eastern Europeans under Soviet total control?

Obviously you want Ukraine to lose its sovereignty to Russia with your declaring the USA's efforts to help Ukraine fully severe from Russian domination.

So... it's your claim. Prove you claim that it is better to be forced to be a Russian than to be a Ukrainean? That is your claim.


i dont hate the u.s. meaning the union, i hate the policies of the federal government inside and outside in which they do not follow the founding principles.

my claim is this, if the u.s. does not have an alliance with the Ukraine, it is none of the u.s. business, because it does not threaten the u.s.

no where is the u.s. to be the police of the world.

so i dont care, what happens over there, useless it threatens the u.s., its citizens and their interest.
 
I'm a believer in what goes around, comes around. I believe there will be terrible payback and retribution against the USA for this in the long run.
 
i dont hate the u.s. meaning the union, i hate the policies of the federal government inside and outside in which they do not follow the founding principles.

my claim is this, if the u.s. does not have an alliance with the Ukraine, it is none of the u.s. business, because it does not threaten the u.s.

no where is the u.s. to be the police of the world.

so i dont care, what happens over there, useless it threatens the u.s., its citizens and their interest.

I understand you only care about yourself - and believe everyone else should care about you too.
 
I understand you only care about yourself - and believe everyone else should care about you too.

i am not a neo-conservtive like john McCain, who is supposed to present the state of Arizona......not to go off tto foreign lands, and and tell them, how there country should be, and or tell their people what their government should do for them.

the founders were about peace, not saber rattling

again ....your emotional contend of your argument weakens you...

people who argue out of emotion, has no clear case to stand on.
 
True, Ukraine was a fool to believe the USA and UK to give up their nuclear weapons. I understand you. You want massive Ukraine causalities and are bothered they are not committing suicide.

First the missiles were SOVIET Missiles, second the Ukrainians 'gave up' the Nuclear weapons to gain money from the West. Third the Ukrainians were not fooled by anyone but themselves if they thought the memorandum was a military defense treaty. Fourth the colonies didn't sit back and demand France fight the world's first superpower for them back in the late 18th century.

Now try and pay attention- I NEVER said the Ukrainians should die in massive numbers, you seem to lack any real debating skills and just make crap up... :doh

What I did say is it took FAR more than a few missiles to send the USSR packing in Afghanistan. The Afghanis fought for a decade, dying by the thousands, to drive the Soviet troops out.

We 'Mericans celebrate several massacres as a point of pride or have you not heard of a small mission in Texas... I want to say it is called something like 'The Alamo'??? Ever heard of the sacrifice those few men made against hopeless odds? Our modern Cav units have enshrined a massacre of Custer's men. "Gerry Owen, Sir!", the ditty, wearing 7th Cav insignia...

Sometimes what never beens call suicide is really making the ultimate sacrifice.

The Ukrainians are not fighting for the Crimea because they know it really isn't part of their country, culture, or business.
 
he is not far off, the u.s. has be involved in the Ukraine for quite so time now, and pushing for democracy there, creating instability before this Russian thing ever got started.

why does everyone always think the u.s. is innocent about things they do abroad ,when all one has to do is look here, and see how they violate the law.
Pushing for democracy and a hostile take over are two different things.
 
Pushing for democracy and a hostile take over are two different things.

excuse me....i dont see in the delegated powers of our government..... a power to push democracy.

america was not even created as a democracy......yet we have people who want it, even though its vile form of government.
 
excuse me....i dont see in the delegated powers of our government..... a power to push democracy.

america was not even created as a democracy......yet we have people who want it, even though its vile form of government.
BS and you know it.
 
BS and you know it.

can you show me the power to push a form of government?

really?..a democracy is a democratic form of government

article 4 section 4 of the u.s. Constitution--The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.
 
Ukrane is as powerful right now as a 85 year old man in a wheelchair. Putin just took the wheels off the wheelchair...big fricken deal.
 
In military rout, Russia seizes 51 Ukrainian ships in Crimea

One-Ship Ukraine Navy Defies Russia to the End - WSJ.com


Looks like they captured most of the Ukranian Navy. Trapping a Navy by sink a few ships tells me they weren't in the best location.

Undoubtedly those Ukrainia ships were mistreating their Russian sailors:lamo

I suspect they were easy to trap because they weren't suspecting an attack. Ever been to Pearl Harbor? I have. By sea. Sink one ship in the channel leading into Pearl and you'd trap every ship in port.
 
can you show me the power to push a form of government?

really?..a democracy is a democratic form of government

article 4 section 4 of the u.s. Constitution--The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.
Which has no bearing on what is going on in Russia.
 
Which has no bearing on what is going on in Russia.

oh, i ask you where does america get its power to push democracy.........and why democracy since America is not one.

why is america, promoting in the Ukraine a form of government the founders hated?
 
oh, i ask you where does america get its power to push democracy.........and why democracy since America is not one.

why is america, promoting in the Ukraine a form of government the founders hated?

First, find me examples of any form of government being pushed by the US in the Ukraine.
 
Back
Top Bottom